Help with an equation for a blog post please

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding an equation related to energy return on energy invested (EROEI) for a blog post. Participants explore the mathematical representation of EROEI, particularly in the context of geometric series and summations, without reaching a definitive conclusion on the correct formulation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about needing calculus to derive an equation for their blog post, suggesting a summation as n approaches infinity for 1/xn.
  • Another participant critiques the lack of clarity in the blog post's mathematical section, noting that it contains numbers without explanations.
  • A participant explains EROEI and its implications for solar energy maintenance, proposing that the sum of energy investments leads to a finite number, which they seek to express mathematically.
  • A later reply identifies the concept as a geometric series, providing the equation 1/(1-(1/x)) as a potential solution.
  • Another participant confirms the geometric series representation with a specific example, demonstrating the summation of 1/2^n equating to 2.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relevance of geometric series to the discussion, but there is no consensus on the correct formulation or application of the equations discussed.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the definitions of EROEI and the mathematical operations involved remain unaddressed, and the discussion does not resolve the specific mathematical steps needed to derive the desired equation.

Evanish
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I don't know any calculus but I'm pretty sure it's what I need to figure out an equation I need for a blog post I'm working on.

Here's the blog post.
http://ratdog-justbecause.blogspot.com/2015/01/low-eroei-and-low-power-density-is.html
.
I think maybe what I'm looking for is the Σ as n approaches infinity for 1/xn. With n starting out as 0. I don't really know for sure though. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
 
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Evanish said:
I don't know any calculus but I'm pretty sure it's what I need to figure out an equation I need for a blog post I'm working on.

Here's the blog post.
http://ratdog-justbecause.blogspot.com/2015/01/low-eroei-and-low-power-density-is.html
.
I think maybe what I'm looking for is the Σ as n approaches infinity for 1/xn. With n starting out as 0. I don't really know for sure though. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
You have a section titled "Now for some math" but all I see are a bunch of numbers that you took out of a spreadsheet, and no indication of what these numbers mean or how you got them.
 
Mark44 said:
You have a section titled "Now for some math" but all I see are a bunch of numbers that you took out of a spreadsheet, and no indication of what these numbers mean or how you got them.
Sorry, I was a bit sloppy. It just seems so obvious to me.

EROEI describes the energy that is needed to be invested (i.e. used) in order to get more energy. If the EROEI is 2 then one unit (of some unit of energy) invested will get you 2 of that unit. If solar is to become a permanent thing then maintaining any given area of it will take energy. The amount of energy is determined by it's EROEI. Let's say that the EROEI is 2. Then maintaining 1m2 of it would take 1/2m2. That 1/2m2 require 1/4m2 and so on. The sum of all these works out to some finite number. The equation for that number was what I was looking for. For the spread sheet I carried out a number of the operation discussed above on the number 1. I used the number one as a place holder for all areas. I did this to create a number that I could multiply any given area by in order to find out the total area needed.

I recently talked to my brother about this. He told me what I'm looking for is called the Geometric series, and the equation is 1/1-(1/x). Sorry Should have asked him first sense I know he's good at math while I mostly go of instinct. I'm going to go fix my blog post. Thanks for your help.
 
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Evanish said:
Sorry, I was a bit sloppy. It just seems so obvious to me.

EROEI describes the energy that is needed to be invested (i.e. used) in order to get more energy. If the EROEI is 2 then one unit (of some unit of energy) invested will get you 2 of that unit. If solar is to become a permanent thing then maintaining any given area of it will take energy. The amount of energy is determined by it's EROEI. Let's say that the EROEI is 2. Then maintaining 1m2 of it would take 1/2m2. That 1/2m2 require 1/4m2 and so on. The sum of all these works out to some finite number. The equation for that number was what I was looking for. For the spread sheet I carried out a number of the operation discussed above on the number 1. I used the number one as a place holder for all areas. I did this to create a number that I could multiply any given area by in order to find out the total area needed.

I recently talked to my brother about this. He told me what I'm looking for is called the Geometric series, and the equation is 1/1-(1/x). Sorry Should have asked him first sense I know he's good at math while I mostly go of instinct. I'm going to go fix my blog post. Thanks for your help.
Yes, it's a geometric series.
$$\sum_{n = 0}^{\infty} \frac{1}{2^n} = 1 + \frac{1}{2^1} + \frac{1}{2^2} + ... + \frac{1}{2^n} + ... = 2$$
 
Mark44 said:
Yes, it's a geometric series.
$$\sum_{n = 0}^{\infty} \frac{1}{2^n} = 1 + \frac{1}{2^1} + \frac{1}{2^2} + ... + \frac{1}{2^n} + ... = 2$$
Thanks!
 

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