Help with Euler-Lagrange Equation

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    Euler-lagrange
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the Euler-Lagrange equation in the context of Lagrangian field theory, specifically addressing the evaluation of expressions involving derivatives of scalar fields. Participants explore the correct interpretation of squared derivatives and the implications of using covectors and vectors in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the expression \((\partial_\mu \varphi)^2\) and why it should be interpreted as \(\partial^\mu \varphi \partial_\mu \varphi\) rather than \((\partial_\mu \varphi)(\partial_\mu \varphi)\).
  • Another participant explains that to form a scalar, a vector (upper index) must be combined with a covector (lower index), and this requires the use of a metric tensor.
  • It is noted that the square of a covector must also involve a metric, leading to the expression \(|\partial_\mu \phi|^2 \equiv \partial^\mu \phi \partial_\mu \phi\).
  • Further clarification is provided that in quantum field theory, the expression \((\partial_\mu \phi)^2\) is always interpreted as \(\partial^\mu \phi \partial_\mu \phi\), emphasizing the necessity of the metric for proper interpretation.
  • A participant acknowledges their prior knowledge of this concept from general relativity but admits it had slipped their mind in this context, indicating a moment of realization.
  • Another participant mentions that taking the derivative with respect to \(\partial_\mu \phi\) results in a factor of two due to the presence of two factors of \(\partial_\mu \phi\) in the expression.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the necessity of using the metric tensor to properly interpret squared derivatives in the context of Lagrangian field theory. However, the initial confusion regarding the notation indicates that some uncertainty remains about the application of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the importance of understanding the relationship between vectors and covectors in forming scalars, as well as the role of the metric tensor in these operations. There are unresolved aspects regarding the participants' varying levels of familiarity with these concepts.

Markus Hanke
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I have begun teaching myself Lagrangian field theory in preparation for taking the plunge into quantum field theory ( it's just a hobby, not any kind of formal course ). When working through exercises, I have run across the following issue which I don't quite understand. I am being given a Lagrangian density, and ask to derive the equations of motion; I understand the principles involved, and everything is fine and easy until I get to the point where I need to evaluate the following expression :

[tex]\frac{1}{2}\frac{\partial }{\partial \left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )}\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )^2[/tex]

wherein ##\varphi(x,y,z,t)## is a scalar field. My approach to this was as simple as it was naive :

[tex]\frac{1}{2}\frac{\partial }{\partial \left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )}\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )^2=\frac{1}{2}\frac{\partial }{\partial \left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )}\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )[/tex]

which evaluates to ##\partial _{\mu}\varphi## via the product rule. However, this is where I get stuck, because the answer is wrong - the correct approach should have been

[tex]\frac{1}{2}\frac{\partial }{\partial \left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )}\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )\left ( \partial ^{\mu}\varphi \right )[/tex]

which apparently evaluates to ##\partial ^{\mu}\varphi## ( though I have difficulties with that as well, but that's a separate issue ), and leads to the correct equations of motion. My question is : why is ##\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )^2=\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )\left ( \partial ^{\mu}\varphi \right )## and not ##\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )^2=\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )## ? I know that this is probably something very elementary, so please don't laugh at me, but I genuinely don't get it.
 
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Markus Hanke said:
I have begun teaching myself Lagrangian field theory in preparation for taking the plunge into quantum field theory ( it's just a hobby, not any kind of formal course ). When working through exercises, I have run across the following issue which I don't quite understand. I am being given a Lagrangian density, and ask to derive the equations of motion; I understand the principles involved, and everything is fine and easy until I get to the point where I need to evaluate the following expression :

[tex]\frac{1}{2}\frac{\partial }{\partial \left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )}\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )^2[/tex]

wherein ##\varphi(x,y,z,t)## is a scalar field. My approach to this was as simple as it was naive :

[tex]\frac{1}{2}\frac{\partial }{\partial \left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )}\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )^2=\frac{1}{2}\frac{\partial }{\partial \left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )}\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )[/tex]

which evaluates to ##\partial _{\mu}\varphi## via the product rule. However, this is where I get stuck, because the answer is wrong - the correct approach should have been

[tex]\frac{1}{2}\frac{\partial }{\partial \left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )}\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )\left ( \partial ^{\mu}\varphi \right )[/tex]

which apparently evaluates to ##\partial ^{\mu}\varphi## ( though I have difficulties with that as well, but that's a separate issue ), and leads to the correct equations of motion. My question is : why is ##\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )^2=\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )\left ( \partial ^{\mu}\varphi \right )## and not ##\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )^2=\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )\left ( \partial _{\mu}\varphi \right )## ? I know that this is probably something very elementary, so please don't laugh at me, but I genuinely don't get it.

This is not specific to quantum field theory, but is a fact about vectors and covectors.

A vector is something that is generally written with upper-indices. For example, if a massive particle's position is [itex]x^\mu[/itex], then its 4-velocity is given by [itex]\frac{dx^\mu}{d\tau}[/itex] (where [itex]\tau[/itex] is proper time for the particle), which is a vector. In contrast, a covector is written using lower-indices. For example, if [itex]\phi[/itex] is a scalar field, then its "gradient" is [itex]\partial_\mu \phi \equiv \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x^\mu}[/itex].

To make a scalar, you have to use a vector together with a covector. That means that you have to have one object with upper-indices and another object with lower-indices. So if [itex]A^\mu[/itex] is a vector and [itex]B_\mu[/itex] is a covector, then you can make a scalar by combining them via: [itex]\sum_\mu A^\mu B_\mu[/itex]. (It's usually written without the [itex]\sum[/itex], using the convention that repeated indices, one upper and one lower, are always summed over.) For example, we can combine a 4-velocity [itex]\frac{dx^\mu}{d\tau}[/itex] and a covector [itex]\partial_\mu \phi[/itex] to get the combination [itex]\frac{dx^\mu}{d\tau} \partial_\mu \phi[/itex]. This is a scalar, the rate of change of [itex]\phi[/itex] for the particle as a function of proper time.

So if you have to use a vector and a covector to make a scalar, then how do you take the square of a vector? The answer is that you can't take the square of a vector without help from a metric tensor. The metric tensor [itex]g_{\mu \nu}[/itex] is an operator that converts a vector into a covector: If you have a vector [itex]A^\mu[/itex] then you can convert it into a corresponding covector [itex]A_\mu[itex]through [itex]A_\mu = g_{\mu \nu} A^\nu[/itex] (by convention, the repeated index [itex]\nu[/itex] on the right side of = is summed over). Using the metric, we can square a vector as follows:<br /> <br /> [itex]|A^\mu|^2 \equiv A^\mu A_\mu \equiv g_{\mu \nu} A^\mu A^\nu[/itex] (in the last expression, both [itex]\mu[/itex] and [itex]\nu[/itex] are summed over).<br /> <br /> Similarly, the square of a covector must involve a metric, as well:<br /> [itex]|\partial_\mu \phi|^2 \equiv \partial^\mu \phi \partial_\mu \phi \equiv g^{\mu \nu} \partial_\mu \phi \partial_\nu \phi[/itex]<br /> (where [itex]g^{\mu \nu}[/itex] is the inverse of [itex]g_{\mu \nu}[/itex]; it converts a covector [itex]\partial_\mu \phi[/itex] into a vector, [itex]\partial^\mu \phi[/itex]).<br /> <br /> In quantum field theory, if an expression like [itex](\partial_\mu \phi)^2[/itex] appears in the Lagrangian, it always means [itex]\partial^\mu \phi \partial_\mu \phi[/itex], because you can't take the square of a covector, otherwise.[/itex][/itex]
 
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stevendaryl said:
In quantum field theory, if an expression like [itex](\partial_\mu \phi)^2[/itex] appears in the Lagrangian, it always means [itex]\partial^\mu \phi \partial_\mu \phi[/itex], because you can't take the square of a covector, otherwise.

Oh, one further point. Since [itex]\partial^\mu \phi \partial_\mu \phi[/itex] means [itex]g^{\mu \nu} \partial_\mu \phi \partial_\nu \phi[/itex], there are two factors of [itex]\partial_\mu \phi[/itex], so taking the derivative with respect to [itex]\partial_\mu \phi[/itex] gives a factor of two.
 
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stevendaryl said:
Similarly, the square of a covector must involve a metric, as well:
[itex]|\partial_\mu \phi|^2 \equiv \partial^\mu \phi \partial_\mu \phi \equiv g^{\mu \nu} \partial_\mu \phi \partial_\nu \phi[/itex]
(where [itex]g^{\mu \nu}[/itex] is the inverse of [itex]g_{\mu \nu}[/itex]; it converts a covector [itex]\partial_\mu \phi[/itex] into a vector, [itex]\partial^\mu \phi[/itex]).

In quantum field theory, if an expression like [itex](\partial_\mu \phi)^2[/itex] appears in the Lagrangian, it always means [itex]\partial^\mu \phi \partial_\mu \phi[/itex], because you can't take the square of a covector, otherwise.

My goodness, of course ! I had come across that already in my studies of GR, but it had completely slipped my mind in this context. I knew I was missing something elementary. Thank you for taking the time to reply in such detail, I understand it now :woot:
 
stevendaryl said:
Oh, one further point. Since [itex]\partial^\mu \phi \partial_\mu \phi[/itex] means [itex]g^{\mu \nu} \partial_\mu \phi \partial_\nu \phi[/itex], there are two factors of [itex]\partial_\mu \phi[/itex], so taking the derivative with respect to [itex]\partial_\mu \phi[/itex] gives a factor of two.

Yup indeed :) Given the correct expansion of this bracket, I actually got the rest of the exercise done with no problems, it was really just this one upper index that tripped me up. But all is good now :smile:
 

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