Help with sample size to measure Form Error of a round metal part

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining an appropriate sample size for a correlation study aimed at measuring the Form Error of a round metal part using three different measurement methods. The focus is on achieving a strong correlation coefficient and a high confidence level in the results.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes three methods for measuring Form Error: a traditional method with high accuracy, a CNC machine with an analog tactile probe, and a sophisticated digital tactile probe.
  • Another participant questions the correlation coefficient and confidence level, suggesting that the correlation coefficient should not depend on sample size.
  • A different participant provides a formula for the t statistic used to test for a linear relationship, indicating the degrees of freedom depend on the sample size.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the statistical validity of using correlation for these measurements and references a paper by Bland and Altman.
  • A later reply indicates a decision to use a sample size of 61 for 95% confidence, based on personal experience and the expectation of measurements being within a 1 micron range.
  • The same participant offers to share their data with the forum, suggesting it may be beneficial to others.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of correlation for the measurements and the implications of sample size on the correlation coefficient. There is no consensus on the best approach or the validity of correlation in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention varying levels of accuracy and historical data, indicating potential limitations in assumptions about measurement precision and the relevance of past experiences to current methods.

Ranger Mike
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Hello all

First time on the Math side of this great Forum.

I need to do a correlation study.

There are 3 methods to measure Form Error of a round metal part.

  1. The base line is the traditional measuring method that is laborious but of the highest accuracy.
  2. A cnc machine measurement machine takes data with an analog tactile scan probe
  3. Lastly, a very sophisticated digiatal tactile scan probe.

Previous observations between the three methods have variacen of ½ to 1 micron.I am seeking a very strong correlation coefficient and high confidence level.

What would be a good sample size?

Thank you
 
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Correlation coefficient between what, confidence level of what?

A proper correlation coefficient shouldn‘t be expected to depend on the sample size.
 
Ranger Mike said:
Hello all

First time on the Math side of this great Forum.

I need to do a correlation study.

There are 3 methods to measure Form Error of a round metal part.

  1. The base line is the traditional measuring method that is laborious but of the highest accuracy.
  2. A cnc machine measurement machine takes data with an analog tactile scan probe
  3. Lastly, a very sophisticated digiatal tactile scan probe.

Previous observations between the three methods have variacen of ½ to 1 micron.I am seeking a very strong correlation coefficient and high confidence level.

What would be a good sample size?

Thank you
If you want to test for the existence of a linear relationship, the standard statistic is the t statistic ( Df=n-2) for a sample of size ##n## and sample correlation ##r##, is given by

## \frac {r \sqrt{n-2}}{1-r^2} ##

EDIT: This is to test the hypothesis on whether there is no linear relationship as null , versus there is one, at your choice of confidence level.
 
Last edited:
Ranger Mike said:
I am seeking a very strong correlation coefficient and high confidence level.
Although correlation is often done for such measurements it is not a very good thing to do statistically. You should read the famous paper by Bland and Altman.
 
thank you fro the timely replies. Having spent all day revisiting the old calc book i am back up to speed on stats. Granted one correlation does not a decision but i think it will provide a lot of insight into our current metrology capabilities.
I have decided 61 sample size will be a good base line for 95% confidence per T table and my non scholastic customers like lots of samples to compare. I suspect the reading from all CMM and rotary instrument will be within a 1 micron range and i am betting on it being within 1/2 micron from past experience. Back in 1980 it was 2 1/2 micron!
would my data be of any benefit you the great people on this forum?
thank you
rm
 

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