Hmmm Arzela-Ascoli, maybe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the Arzelà-Ascoli theorem in the context of constructing a sequence of functions \( f_k \) that converge uniformly to a given function \( g \) and its derivatives, while ensuring certain smoothness conditions are met. The focus is on the properties of \( g \) and how to derive \( f_k \) under the constraints of \( g \) being twice continuously differentiable except at finitely many points.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest restricting the domain to a compact subset of \( \mathbb{R} \) to facilitate the application of the Arzelà-Ascoli theorem.
  • One participant proposes taking \( f_k = g \) for each \( k \), questioning whether \( f_k \) needs to be \( C^2 \) at each point.
  • Another participant discusses approximating \( g'' \) by continuous functions and integrating to construct \( f_k \), noting the uniform boundedness of \( f'_k \) on the interval.
  • Concerns are raised about showing that \( f'_k \to g' \) uniformly, with references to the fundamental theorem of calculus and its applicability given the discontinuities in \( g'' \).
  • Participants discuss the potential use of Lebesgue's fundamental theorem of calculus, questioning the absolute continuity of \( g'' \) as a requirement.
  • One participant mentions that continuity of \( g'' \) is not necessary for the application of a generalized form of the fundamental theorem of calculus.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the fundamental theorem of calculus in this context, particularly regarding the continuity of \( g'' \) and the conditions under which it can be applied. There is no consensus on the best approach to construct the sequence \( f_k \) or on the uniform convergence of \( f'_k \) to \( g' \).

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the properties of \( g'' \) and the assumptions regarding its continuity and integrability. The discussion also highlights unresolved mathematical steps related to the uniform convergence of derivatives.

AxiomOfChoice
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Suppose you know the following about [itex]g: \mathbb R \to \mathbb R[/itex]:
  1. [itex]g\in C^1[/itex];
  2. [itex]g\in C^2[/itex], expect at finitely many points [itex]\{x_1,\ldots,x_n\}[/itex], and [itex]|g''(x)| \leq M[/itex] (except at those points).

How can you show that there exists a sequence [itex]f_k[/itex] with the following properties?
  1. [itex]f_k \to g[/itex] uniformly;
  2. [itex]f'_k \to g'[/itex] uniformly;
  3. [itex]f_k \in C^2[/itex], [itex]|f''_k(x)| \leq M[/itex], and [itex]f''_k \to g''[/itex] outside [itex]\{x_1,\ldots,x_n\}[/itex].

Arzela-Ascoli is pretty much the only theorem I know of that talks about sequences of functions with uniformly bounded derivatives, but I can't for the life of me see how you could use it to construct the sequence [itex]f_k[/itex].
 
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Hmmm...well, what if instead of looking at [itex]\mathbb R[/itex], we restrict our attention to some compact subset of [itex]\mathbb R[/itex]? Does that help at all?
 
Take [itex]f_k=g[/itex] for each k. Or do you want [itex]f_k[/itex] to be [itex]C^2[/itex] at each point?? In that case, first approximate [itex]g^{\prime\prime}[/itex] by continuous functions. Then take integrals.
 
micromass said:
Take [itex]f_k=g[/itex] for each k. Or do you want [itex]f_k[/itex] to be [itex]C^2[/itex] at each point?? In that case, first approximate [itex]g^{\prime\prime}[/itex] by continuous functions. Then take integrals.

micromass, thanks for your response.

Since [itex]g''[/itex] is continuous (except on a set of measure zero) on the compact interval [itex][0,t][/itex], it is integrable there and can therefore be written as the pointwise limit of a sequence of continuous functions (with compact support) - call these functions [itex]f''_k[/itex]. We know these functions are integrable, too, and that [itex]f'_k(s) = \int_0^s f''_k(q)dq[/itex] for [itex]s\in [0,t][/itex]. We also have
[tex] |f'_k(s)| = \left| \int_0^s f''_k(q)dq \right| \leq \int_0^s |f''_k(q)|dq \leq Ms \leq Mt,[/tex]
such that the sequence [itex]\{f'_k\}[/itex] is uniformly bounded on [itex][0,t][/itex]. But how are we supposed to show that [itex]f'_k \to g'[/itex] uniformly? I mean, do we even know [itex]\int_0^s g''(q)dq = g'(s)[/itex]?
 
AxiomOfChoice said:
micromass, thanks for your response.

Since [itex]g''[/itex] is continuous (except on a set of measure zero) on the compact interval [itex][0,t][/itex], it is integrable there and can therefore be written as the pointwise limit of a sequence of continuous functions (with compact support) - call these functions [itex]f''_k[/itex]. We know these functions are integrable, too, and that [itex]f'_k(s) = \int_0^s f''_k(q)dq[/itex] for [itex]s\in [0,t][/itex]. We also have
[tex] |f'_k(s)| = \left| \int_0^s f''_k(q)dq \right| \leq \int_0^s |f''_k(q)|dq \leq Ms \leq Mt,[/tex]
such that the sequence [itex]\{f'_k\}[/itex] is uniformly bounded on [itex][0,t][/itex]. But how are we supposed to show that [itex]f'_k \to g'[/itex] uniformly?

So you must prove that [itex]\int_0^s f^{\prime\prime}_k\rightarrow \int_0^s g^{\prime\prime}[/itex] uniformly. This is easily proved from the definition of uniform continuity. Use that

[tex]|\int_0^s{f^{\prime\prime}_k} - \int_0^{s-h}{g^{\prime\prime}}| \leq \int_{s-h}^s{|f^{\prime\prime}_k - g^{\prime\prime}|} \leq h \sup_{x\in [s-h,h]}{ |f^{\prime\prime}_k(x)-g^{\prime\prime}(x)|}[/tex]
I mean, do we even know [itex]\int_0^s g''(q)dq = g'(s)[/itex]?

Fundamental theorem of calculus? (if you add a -g'(0) there)
 
micromass said:
Fundamental theorem of calculus? (if you add a -g'(0) there)

But [itex]g''[/itex] is not continuous at finitely many points in the interval, so we can't apply the (traditional) FTC. Maybe we can apply Lebesgue's FTC, but how do we know [itex]g''[/itex] is absolutely continuous?
 
AxiomOfChoice said:
But [itex]g''[/itex] is not continuous at finitely many points in the interval, so we can't apply the (traditional) FTC. Maybe we can apply Lebesgue's FTC, but how do we know [itex]g''[/itex] is absolutely continuous?

Continuity if [itex]g^{\prime\prime}[/itex] isn't necessary.

It can be proven that if [itex]f:[a,b]\rightarrow \mathbb{R}[/itex] has a primitive F on [a,b], then

[itex]\int_a^b{f}=F(a)-F(b)[/itex]

Continuousness of f isn't important. This is a slight generalization of the usual fundamental theorem of calculus. A proof can be found in Bartle "a modern theory of integration" Theorem 4.5.
 

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