Homeless mentally ill in the U.S.

[Loren Booda]

I believe that the incidence of rape in mental institutions is relatively high, but even more so for (especially attractive) homeless women on the street and the mentally ill in prison.

The Los Angeles County Jail and Riker's Island (NY) are the largest de facto mental institutions in the country.

 

[zoobyshoe]

The side effects may be bad, but are they worse than the symptoms of the disease?

The way you can tell is if the person is willing to put up with the side effects for the relative peace the meds give them. Some people are on three different meds at once: A psychotropic, an antidepressent, and and anti-anxiety drug, and are still hearing abusive voices.

There's a homeless man near my house who appears to suffer from severe schizophrenia. He's been having bad episodes for a couple of days now. He behaves as if something is attacking him.Whatever he thinks is happening to him, he's obviously terrified. It's like he's trapped in a waking nightmare.

Could be schizophrenia, could be mania with psychotic features, could be something organic: a dementia, could be street drugs. He ought to be looked at, yes.

Last night I was reading about cases of violent behavior in people suffering from severe bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. The saddest cases were of mothers who killed and maimed their children. Too horrific to go into it here. I just kept thinking - these incidents did not have to happen.

You're right, and in the cases of mentally ill parents there should probably be much more than policing their meds: weekly group meetings on parenting skills, and meetings with psychologists to make sure they aren't teaching their kids things like the President is Satan's puppet. I'm not concerned about this required med taking in the cases of people who are dangerous.

 

[Math Is Hard]

You're right, and in the cases of mentally ill parents there should probably be much more than policing their meds: weekly group meetings on parenting skills, and meetings with psychologists to make sure they aren't teaching their kids things like the President is Satan's puppet. I'm not concerned about this required med taking in the cases of people who are dangerous.

I'm glad you brought that up. This is something that's missing from my paper. There needs to be monitoring, not just dosing. Services should include counseling for the whole family as well as the individual.

Three weeks ago, one of our local homeless guys in Westwood was passed out on the sidewalk. I stopped a patrol car and asked them to go check on him. I honestly wasn't sure if he was even breathing. They agreed to go over but their attitude was just "yeah, he does that all the time."
Why won't someone help him?

The Los Angeles County Jail and Riker's Island (NY) are the largest de facto mental institutions in the country.

I agree. Deinstitutionalization was nothing more than the swapping of one facility for another. If I did the math right, the numbers look like this:

1973: for every person incarcerated by the New York State Department of Corrections(DOC), there were approximately 7 in New York State psychiatric hospitals.

2000: For every patient in a NY State Hospital, there were approximately 14 inmates housed by the New York DOC

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/articles/massdissent040100.shtml

 

[SOS2008]

MIH - Very interesting.

It seems there is always argumentation of misuse/abuse against scientific progress. With correct systems in place for ethical usage and plenty of testing of drugs, then it would be just a matter of diagnosis and treatment. As you mentioned earlier in the thread, the mentally ill (once properly diagnosed) tend to go off their meds, so they need supervision of some kind.

If you are interested in comparing meds to vaccination and in regard to side effects, you may want to research autism from flu shots.

 

[honestrosewater]

If you're interested in the legal side of things, cases about mandatory vaccinations have already made their way through the system and the broader parts of those decisions may be relevant to AOT. Vaccinations: Precedent and
Current Laws[/url] (Updated January 18, 2005) may give you some leads. For instance, from the JACOBSON v. COM. OF MASSACHUSETTS decision:

We come, then, to inquire whether any right given or secured by the Constitution is invaded by the statute as [197 U.S. 11, 26] interpreted by the state court. The defendant insists that his liberty is invaded when the state subjects him to fine or imprisonment for neglecting or refusing to submit to vaccination; that a compulsory vaccination law is unreasonable, arbitrary, and oppressive, and, therefore, hostile to the inherent right of every freeman to care for his own body and health in such way as to him seems best; and that the execution of such a law against one who objects to vaccination, no matter for what reason, is nothing short of an assault upon his person. But the liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States to every person within its jurisdiction does not import an absolute right in each person to be, at all times and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint. There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good. On any other basis organized society could not exist with safety to its members. Society based on the rule that each one is a law unto himself would soon be confronted with disorder and anarchy. Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others. This court has more than once recognized it as a fundamental principle that 'persons and property are subjected to all kinds of restraints and burdens in order to secure the general comfort, health, and prosperity of the state; of the perfect right of the legislature to do which no question ever was, or upon acknowledged general principles ever can be, made, so far as natural persons are concerned.'
- http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=197&invol=11

 

[Math Is Hard]

I keep hearing about this "autism from flu shots" thing. I've been dismissing it because it seems so outlandish as an idea. But heck, three very intelligent and rational people have mentioned it to me in the past week (you being the latest, SOS), so maybe I should go a-googling!

Thank you for that info, HRW. I haven't quite worked in madatory vaccinations as part of my paper - BUT your thoughts on this did inspire to seek out another area of medication compliance that is less controversial. It seems that in some states people who have epilepsy are required to stay on anti-seizure medication if they want a driver's license. Not every person with epilepsy is going to have seizure and lose control of the car, but there is an elevated risk.

oops- must run duty calls - people get so bent out of shape when they can't use their computers.

 

[honestrosewater]

Thank you for that info, HRW. I haven't quite worked in madatory vaccinations as part of my paper - BUT your thoughts on this did inspire to seek out another area of medication compliance that is less controversial. It seems that in some states people who have epilepsy are required to stay on anti-seizure medication if they want a driver's license. Not every person with epilepsy is going to have seizure and lose control of the car, but there is an elevated risk.

Oh, sure, it was just an idea- didn't mean to push it on you.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Oh, sure, it was just an idea- didn't mean to push it on you.

oh, I still might use it - it's a great idea. I'm just too tired to work on that paper anymore.

He usually gives us a chance to read his comments and submit a revision. If he comes down on me for not having enough data to back up that one point, it will be nice to have that mandatory vaccination info to give more support.

 

[iansmith]

I keep hearing about this "autism from flu shots" thing. I've been dismissing it because it seems so outlandish as an idea. But heck, three very intelligent and rational people have mentioned it to me in the past week (you being the latest, SOS), so maybe I should go a-googling!

You should keep dismissing the idea that vaccine are link to autism. there is no evidence for it

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15877763&query_hl=1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15858952&query_hl=1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15366972&query_hl=12
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12421889&query_hl=12

 

[SOS2008]

You should keep dismissing the idea that vaccine are link to autism. there is no evidence for it

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15877763&query_hl=1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15858952&query_hl=1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15366972&query_hl=12
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12421889&query_hl=12

Agreed this is not a proven cause-effect fact, but I'm not sure about dismissing it all together either. I believe the flu vaccine was altered--at least any way here in the U.S. In the meantime, authorities do not want people to be in fear of getting vaccinations, so have strived to keep controversies such as this out of public debate--there also is debate about mercury, and other vaccinations. In any event, according to The California Special Report May 2003 - Autism Cases Nearly Double in 4 Years, and...

Autism & Vaccines: A New Look At An Old Story

The connection between vaccination and autistic behavior, first reported in DPT: A Shot in the Dark (Coulter & Fisher, 1985) fifteen years ago and now being discussed in the medical literature, has finally entered the U.S. public arena after simmering for more than a decade...

In 1999, as states revealed skyrocketing rates of autism spectrum disorder among children and a congressional hearing was held in the U.S. Congress, the media began to explore the medical controversy in print and broadcast reports. At the heart of the debate stand a few courageous physicians whose independent, multi-disciplinary approach to investigating the possible biological mechanisms of vaccine-induced autism is serving as a counterweight to the steadfast denials by infectious disease specialists and government health officials defending current mass vaccination policies. As scientific evidence reveals that a portion of autism lies on the vaccine injury spectrum, parents determined to find help for their children are turning to doctors exploring diet and immune modulating therapies.

The Past Is Prologue

Parents of now grown vaccine injured children, who warned pediatricians and Centers for Disease Control (CDC) officials in the 1980’s that their once healthy, bright children regressed mentally, emotionally and physically after reacting to DPT vaccine with fever, high pitched screaming (encephalitic cry), collapse/shock, and seizures, are grieving with a new generation of parents whose healthy, bright children suddenly regress after DPT/DTaP, MMR, hepatitis B, polio, Hib and chicken pox vaccinations. The refusal two decades ago by vaccine manufacturers, government health agencies and medical organizations to seriously investigate reports of vaccine-associated brain injury and immune system dysfunction, including autistic behaviors, is reaping tragic consequences today.

Now parents of old and young vaccine injured children in the U.S. and Europe are joining with enlightened doctors in a rejection of the unscientific a priori assumption that a child’s mental, physical and emotional regression after vaccination is only coincidentally but not causally related to the vaccines recently given...

http://909shot.com/Diseases/autismsp.htm