Homogeneous equation and orthogonality

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the conditions under which a boundary value problem involving a fourth-order differential equation can be solved, particularly focusing on the relationship between the right-hand side function and the solutions of the corresponding homogeneous equation. The context includes aspects of functional analysis and variational mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant cites a book stating that the right-hand side of the differential equation can only be arbitrary if the homogeneous equation has no non-trivial solutions, indicating a need for orthogonality conditions on the right-hand side function.
  • Another participant requests clarification on the function space and the definition of the differential operator, suggesting that the Closed Range Theorem may apply to the situation described.
  • A later reply acknowledges the lack of definitions in the cited book and expresses uncertainty about the context, noting that the problem is introduced quickly without sufficient detail.
  • One participant explains the concept of the range of a linear operator, providing a definition and relating it to the earlier discussion.
  • A final participant expresses familiarity with the concepts discussed, indicating some level of understanding of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the definitions and context necessary for the discussion, indicating that multiple views and uncertainties remain regarding the application of the concepts involved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the provided definitions and assumptions, particularly regarding the function space and the operator's domain, which are not clearly established in the cited material.

dRic2
Gold Member
Messages
887
Reaction score
225
Hi, I'm going to cite a book that I'am reading

It is in the general theory of differential equations that the right-hand side of
$$y''''(x) = \rho (x)$$
can be prescribed arbitrary only if the corresponding homogeneous differential equation has no solution except the trivial solution ##y=0##. In all the previous cases the boundary conditions were such that the differential equation
$$y''''(x) = 0$$
had no solution under the given boundary conditions. Here, however, two such independent solution exist, namely
$$y = 1$$
$$y = x$$
In such case our boundary value problem is not solvable unless ##\rho(x)## is "orthogonal" to the homogeneous solutions - i.e.
$$\int_0^l \rho(x)dx = 0$$
$$\int_0^l \rho(x)xdx = 0$$

Can anyone provide some simple references where I can find at least an intuition regarding what is stated by the author.

Thanks,
Ric
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You would have to make the setting more precise.
  1. Which function space? (Presumably ##L^2(0,l)## with standard inner product.)
  2. How is the differential operator exactly defined? (In particular, what is its domain?)
Assuming you have checked this, this looks like a direct application of the Closed Range Theorem. (You can search for this term to find references in most FA textbooks. In the simplest setting, it characterizes the closed range of a closed, densely defined operator as the orthoplement of the nullspace of its adjoint.)
 
Last edited:
S.G. Janssens said:
You would have to make the setting more precise.
  1. Which function space? (Presumably ##L^2(0,l)## with standard inner product.)
  2. How is the differential operator exactly defined? (In particular, what is its domain?)
Not sure, really. This is from a book on variational mechanics and the problem is introduced very quickly and without any particular definitions. It was something like:

Consider the equilibrium of an elastic bar. For elasticity theory we know that the variational problem takes the following form... the Euler-Lagrange equations thus are...

and very few lines after begins the section I quoted.

S.G. Janssens said:
Assuming you have checked this, this looks like a direct application of the Closed Range Theorem. (You can search for this term to find references in most FA textbooks.
Thanks. I took an intro course in Functional Analysis (for physics and engineer), but we didn't cover the range of an operator. I will see what I can find, thanks again! :D
 
dRic2 said:
I took an intro course in Functional Analysis (for physics and engineer), but we didn't cover the range of an operator.

You may also know it as the "image". If ##A : D(A) \subseteq X \to X## is a linear operator on a vector space ##X##, then its range is just ##R(A) := \{y \in X\,:\, \exists x \in D(A) \text{ such that } Ax = y\}##. (More generally, you can of course do this for any function between sets, but then the term "image" is used more often than "range".)
 
Oh, this sounds familiar. Thank you.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K