Hot water circulator, kitchen faucet, ? mixing

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the operation of a hot water circulating pump system in a new construction house, specifically regarding the functionality and potential mixing of hot and cold water in a KWC Systema kitchen faucet. Participants explore the implications of leaving the main valve on while using secondary flow controls, as well as the plumbing dynamics involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the setup of their hot water circulating system and the configuration of their KWC Systema faucet, noting the presence of multiple valves for controlling flow and temperature.
  • The plumber suggests that mixing occurs continuously when the main valve is on, regardless of the other flow controls being off, raising questions about the mechanics of water flow in the system.
  • Another participant challenges the plumber's assertion, questioning where the mixed water would go if it is not exiting through a faucet, suggesting that water must remain within the loop.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential for heat exchange at the interface of the hot and cold pipes within the faucet, though the extent of this effect is not quantified.
  • A participant considers using a medical-grade Doppler ultrasound machine to investigate water flow, expressing uncertainty about the effectiveness of sound transmission through the piping material.
  • Another participant expresses admiration for the faucet's design, indicating a subjective preference for its aesthetic qualities.
  • A different faucet model is mentioned, with a participant noting a personal preference but acknowledging a decision made by their spouse against it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether mixing occurs in the faucet when the main valve is on. There is no consensus on the plumber's claim, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the mechanics of water flow and mixing in this specific setup.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not clarify whether the faucet includes check valves, which could influence the discussion about mixing. The implications of the plumbing configuration and the specific characteristics of the piping materials are also not fully explored.

AceCannon
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http://kwcamerica.com/-hansa/images/product/10_501_134_480.jpg

Obviously, I am a newb here, so thanks for reading my (probably simplistic) question. I've done a bunch of searching of the forums and didn't see what I was after.

We recently moved into our new construction house which is configured with a hot water circulating pump. The idea being that a loop of pipe runs through the house and a small volume of hot water is always there circulating. When you turn on any hot faucet, the distance the hot water has to travel is just from the nearest point on the circuit, so BAM you get quick hot water.

My plumber was eying our kitchen faucet dubiously the other day. A KWC Systema model (http://kwcamerica.com/-hansa/doc/technical/specsheet/10.501.134%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf" ), it has a regular spout and a pre-rinse retractable spray head. Beast of a faucet. Solid, heavy metal thing. There is one valve that controls flow AND temperature. It's is kinda hard to tell on the pic above, but a second valve on the base of the regular spout controls the flow rate to that spout only. (The spec sheet has a clear drawing of this) A third valve on the handle of the prerinse spray head is for the sprayer only. SO - we have been leaving the main valve on, to whatever temperature we need for awhile, and just turning the water on and off with the other two (non-temp) valves. The plumber says mixing is going on the whole time the main valve is on, even though the two other flow controls are off.

Sounds like BS to me. The pressure in the whole house (hot and cold) ought to be the same when all faucets are off. The same supply line feeds the hot water heater and the cold pipes. I do not know if the faucet includes one-way valves (? check valves). But it seems to me the only downside of our method is a bit of heat exchange right at the interface between the two pipes in the kitchen faucet valve where they come together.

Any advice or opinions? I've thought about using a medical-grade Doppler ultrasound machine to look for evidence of flow (I cannot hear any water running in the pipes), but I don't know how well sound will move through these pipes, if at all. (Most of the piping in the house is plastic, not copper).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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Bump.

So perhaps I should have put this in a different subforum.
 
AceCannon said:
The plumber says mixing is going on the whole time the main valve is on, even though the two other flow controls are off.
Where does he think the mixed water is going? It has to go somewhere and if it isn't coming out a faucet, then water can't be moving anywhere except around the loop - which has to be a constant volume.
 
AceCannon said:
http://kwcamerica.com/-hansa/images/product/10_501_134_480.jpg

Obviously, I am a newb here, so thanks for reading my (probably simplistic) question. I've done a bunch of searching of the forums and didn't see what I was after.

We recently moved into our new construction house which is configured with a hot water circulating pump. The idea being that a loop of pipe runs through the house and a small volume of hot water is always there circulating. When you turn on any hot faucet, the distance the hot water has to travel is just from the nearest point on the circuit, so BAM you get quick hot water.

My plumber was eying our kitchen faucet dubiously the other day. A KWC Systema model (http://kwcamerica.com/-hansa/doc/technical/specsheet/10.501.134%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf" ), it has a regular spout and a pre-rinse retractable spray head. Beast of a faucet. Solid, heavy metal thing. There is one valve that controls flow AND temperature. It's is kinda hard to tell on the pic above, but a second valve on the base of the regular spout controls the flow rate to that spout only. (The spec sheet has a clear drawing of this) A third valve on the handle of the prerinse spray head is for the sprayer only. SO - we have been leaving the main valve on, to whatever temperature we need for awhile, and just turning the water on and off with the other two (non-temp) valves. The plumber says mixing is going on the whole time the main valve is on, even though the two other flow controls are off.

Sounds like BS to me. The pressure in the whole house (hot and cold) ought to be the same when all faucets are off. The same supply line feeds the hot water heater and the cold pipes. I do not know if the faucet includes one-way valves (? check valves). But it seems to me the only downside of our method is a bit of heat exchange right at the interface between the two pipes in the kitchen faucet valve where they come together.

Any advice or opinions? I've thought about using a medical-grade Doppler ultrasound machine to look for evidence of flow (I cannot hear any water running in the pipes), but I don't know how well sound will move through these pipes, if at all. (Most of the piping in the house is plastic, not copper).

That faucet is really too good, I have fallen in love with the design of it. It looks so fresh and happening. This is the type of design which is in more demand in the market. People love these types of new designs, the quality also looks good which is also equally important.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I liked this one (also from KWC) better, but the wife put the kibosh on it, said it was too tall.

31wFfkjISNL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
 

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