How Are Irrational Numbers Identified Between Rational Number Intervals?

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    Density Theorem
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the identification of irrational numbers within intervals of rational numbers, exploring the properties of real and rational numbers, particularly their density and countability. Participants examine the implications of these properties and seek clarification on the existence of real numbers that may not be accounted for within rational intervals.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the real numbers are uncountable while rational numbers are countable, leading to questions about the existence of real numbers that cannot be accounted for within rational intervals.
  • Others clarify that rational numbers are dense in the real number line, meaning that between any two real numbers, there exists at least one rational number.
  • A participant suggests a method for systematically finding a rational number between two given real numbers, providing an example to illustrate this approach.
  • There is a correction regarding the use of the term "quarantined," with a participant indicating that the correct term should be "guaranteed" in the context of finding rational numbers near real numbers.
  • Some participants express confusion about the existence of real numbers that are not accounted for, with one participant stating that no real numbers are missing and all can be accounted for.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the density of rational numbers within the real numbers, but there is disagreement regarding the interpretation of the existence of real numbers that may not be accounted for, leading to unresolved questions about the nature of these numbers.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of countability and density, as well as the implications of these properties on the understanding of real and rational numbers. Some boundary cases and specific examples may complicate the precise descriptions offered.

kris kaczmarczyk
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TL;DR
Real number are uncountable nonetheless they always have Rational neighbor
count(ℝ) > count(ℚ) ; count(ℚ) == count(ℕ)

But still in-between any members of ℝ, we are quarantine to find element of ℚ

Can someone help me understand: were are these members of ℝ we cannot account for?

For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_number

"The rationals are a dense subset of the real numbers: every real number has rational numbers arbitrarily close to it. A related property is that rational numbers are the only numbers with finite expansions as regular continued fractions. "
 
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kris kaczmarczyk said:
Summary: Real number are uncountable nonetheless they always have Rational neighbor
No rational number has a "neighbor".
No real number has a "neighbor.
 
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kris kaczmarczyk said:
Summary: Real number are uncountable nonetheless they always have Rational neighbor
A better way to say this is that the rationals are dense in the real number line. That is, between any two real numbers, there is always some rational number.
kris kaczmarczyk said:
count(ℝ) > count(ℚ) ; count(ℚ) == count(ℕ)

But still in-between any members of ℝ, we are quarantine to find element of ℚ
See above. Also, the word you want is "guaranteed," which is quite different from "quarantined."
kris kaczmarczyk said:
Can someone help me understand: were are these members of ℝ we cannot account for?
What do you mean? No real numbers are missing. We can account for all of them.
kris kaczmarczyk said:
For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_number

"The rationals are a dense subset of the real numbers: every real number has rational numbers arbitrarily close to it. A related property is that rational numbers are the only numbers with finite expansions as regular continued fractions. "
 
If it helps, one (relatively) simple way to remember is it that given two real numbers ##r_1,r_2## (where ##r_1<r_2##) we can always systematically extract a rational number ##q## so that ##r_1<q<r_2##. I find this a helpful way to remember this result.

The precise description will probably get a bit complicated due to boundary cases, but here is the general idea via a specific example.
##r_1=0.23459678...##
##r_1=0.23459732...##
The dots indicate that either we don't know (or don't care) about the digits after that.

So to generate ##q## first we copy the initial part where the digits of ##r_1## and ##r_2## are equal. So the first five digits of ##q## (after the decimal point) will be the same as ##r_1## and ##r_2##.

Now if you notice the next two digits in ##r_1##, they are ##6## and ##7##, while in ##r_2## they are ##7## and ##3##.
So we could use any of the following as ##q##:
##q=0.2345968##
##q=0.2345969##
##q=0.2345970##
##q=0.2345971##
##q=0.2345972##
 

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