Can Rational Numbers Approximate Irrational Numbers Arbitrarily Closely?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether rational numbers can approximate irrational numbers arbitrarily closely. Participants explore the theoretical underpinnings of this concept, including definitions, proofs, and mathematical reasoning related to limits and the properties of real numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a proof involving an irrational number β expressed with an accuracy of 1/n, questioning how to demonstrate that β falls between two rational approximations.
  • Another participant reiterates the same proof attempt and seeks clarification on the definition of "a number can be described with the help of a rational."
  • A different participant suggests that for any irrational number x and any δ > 0, there exists a rational number y such that the distance |x - y| is less than δ, noting that the proof may depend on the definition of real numbers.
  • One participant mentions that truncating the decimal expansion of an irrational number provides a rational approximation, with an error term related to the number of decimal places.
  • Another participant challenges the assumption that an arbitrary value of β falls between two consecutive integers and asks for a proof of this claim, suggesting that the same technique could be used to show that β falls between specific rational values.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints and approaches to the problem, with no consensus reached on the proofs or definitions involved. Multiple competing views and questions remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence of the discussion on definitions of real numbers and the nature of limits, indicating that the proofs may vary based on these foundational concepts.

Kartik.
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Prove the theorem comprising that an irrational number β can be described to any limit of accuracy with the help of rational.

Attempt-
Taking the β to be greater than zero and is expressed with an accuracy of 1/n
For any arbitrary value of β, it falls between two consecutive integers which are assumed to be N and N+1.Division of the interval between N and N+1 is into n parts.After this step i know that the number will fall between N+m/n and N+(M+1/n), but my question is HOW? and i also want to know about the rest of the proof.
 
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Kartik. said:
Prove the theorem comprising that an irrational number β can be described to any limit of accuracy with the help of rational.

Attempt-
Taking the β to be greater than zero and is expressed with an accuracy of 1/n
For any arbitrary value of β, it falls between two consecutive integers which are assumed to be N and N+1.Division of the interval between N and N+1 is into n parts.After this step i know that the number will fall between N+m/n and N+(M+1/n), but my question is HOW? and i also want to know about the rest of the proof.


Please define what is "a number can be described with the help of a rational".

I bet, for sure, that what you need here is a simple fact about limits, the euclidean topology of the reals and stuff, but if

you haven't yet studied this then it's important to know what you think you have to prove.

DonAntonio
 
I assume you mean that, given an irrational number, x, and \delta> 0, there exist a rational number, y, such that |x- y|< \delta.

How you would prove that depends upon how you are defining "real number". If, for example, you define the real numbers as "equivalence classes of Cauchy sequences of rational numbers" this is relatively simple to prove.
 
If you start with the decimal expansion of an irrational number, you can truncate it at any time to get a rational approximation. At n decimal places the error term ~ 10-n.
 
Edit: Posted in wrong thread. Sorry.
 
Kartik. said:
For any arbitrary value of β, it falls between two consecutive integers which are assumed to be N and N+1.

Can you prove this? If you can, see if you can use the same technique to prove that β falls between N+(m/n) and N+[(m+1)/n], for some m.
 

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