How are large compounds/molecules formed?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the formation of large compounds and molecules, exploring the stability of atoms during chemical reactions and the reasons why elements continue to react despite forming stable compounds. Participants examine the concepts of stability, entropy, and the dynamics of multiple products in reactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the notion of a "purpose" behind reactions, suggesting that stability is not absolute and can vary.
  • There is a suggestion that large compounds can still be stable enough to exist, even if they are not completely stable.
  • One participant posits that while reactions may create stable compounds, the presence of multiple products can complicate the stability of the overall reaction.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that reactions may be driven by entropy rather than the stability of products alone.
  • Concerns are raised about the interpretation of stability, with a participant noting that the term may not be used precisely in the context of the discussion.
  • There is a request for clarification on the concept of entropy, particularly its relationship to energy in reactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of stability in chemical reactions, with no consensus reached on whether stability is absolute or relative, and how entropy factors into the reactions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the ambiguity surrounding definitions of stability and entropy, as well as the complexity of reactions involving multiple products, which may not be fully resolved in the discussion.

LogicalAcid
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If the purpose of elements reacting was to stabilize the atoms, then after a standard reaction shouldn't the atoms be completely stable, instead of having to form compounds/molecules of 10+ atoms?
 
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LogicalAcid said:
If the purpose of elements reacting was to stabilize the atoms,
What do you mean 'the purpose' of a reaction?

LogicalAcid said:
then after a standard reaction shouldn't the atoms be completely stable
There is no such thing as 'completely' stable (for all intents and purposes), you can be arbitrarily stable or unstable.

LogicalAcid said:
instead of having to form compounds/molecules of 10+ atoms?
large compounds can still be highly stable, and more importantly, stable enough to exist.

Can you elaborate on what you're asking exactly.
 
Large molecules and compounds.

For example, let's take Carbon in its pure elemental form. I thought that when elements react with one another, they become more and more stable, so how is it that when they react, which makes a much more stable compound/molecule, they still react with other elements? I thought that each reaction makes the compound/molecule more and more stable, so how is it that very large molecules/compounds form if the pieces that make them up were supposed to be completely stable after 2-3 reactions keep on reacting a large number of times to form compounds/molecules with a large number of atoms? Is it that even when elements react, the bond is never completely stable? Please explain?
 


LogicalAcid said:
I thought that when elements react with one another, they become more and more stable

That's where you are wrong. In short - you can't look at a single product of the reaction, you have to look at everything that happens.

Imagine you have a reaction with more than one product, it may happen that one of these products is highly stable (like water, or carbon dioxide, or sodium chloride) and its stability is what is driving the reaction - but other product is much less stable.

It may also happen that the reaction is driven not by the stability of the products, but by the increasing entropy of the system.

Note that I used term "stability" rather lousily, just to answer the question in terms you have used.
 


Borek said:
That's where you are wrong. In short - you can't look at a single product of the reaction, you have to look at everything that happens.

Imagine you have a reaction with more than one product, it may happen that one of these products is highly stable (like water, or carbon dioxide, or sodium chloride) and its stability is what is driving the reaction - but other product is much less stable.

It may also happen that the reaction is driven not by the stability of the products, but by the increasing entropy of the system.

Note that I used term "stability" rather lousily, just to answer the question in terms you have used.

I thought entropy was energy not able to be used in a reaction? please explain?
 

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