How can I calculate dilectric constant from conductivity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the dielectric constant from electrical conductivity, exploring both theoretical frameworks and practical considerations. Participants engage with the relationship between dielectric properties and conductivity, referencing equations and measurement techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a theoretical framework connecting dielectric response and conductivity through linear response equations and Fourier transforms, suggesting that the dielectric constant can be expressed in terms of conductivity.
  • Another participant notes the continuity equation and its implications for polarization current density, further linking it to the discussion on dielectric properties.
  • A different participant questions the visibility of mathematical equations, indicating a potential technical issue with the forum's app that may prevent users from seeing rendered equations.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on whether the inquiry pertains to theoretical calculations or practical measurements, suggesting that in practical scenarios, determining the dielectric constant from conductivity may not be feasible without specific data.
  • This participant also mentions that measuring the dielectric constant directly through capacitance or resonator methods is generally more effective than inferring it from conductivity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the feasibility of calculating the dielectric constant from conductivity, with some participants suggesting theoretical connections while others argue that practical measurement is more reliable. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the general applicability of the proposed methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the generalizability of calculating the dielectric constant from conductivity, noting that specific conditions or data may be required. There are also references to technical limitations regarding the visibility of mathematical expressions in the forum.

Aseel5
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Hello,
could you help me please about how can I calculate dielectric constant form electrical conductivity?
 
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There is a connection between the linear response equations for a dielectric medium:
## P(x,t)=\int \chi(x-x',t-t') E(x',t') \, d^3 x' \, dt' ## and ## J_p(x,t)=\int \sigma(x-x',t-t') E(x', t') \, d^3x' dt' ##. Taking Fourier transforms these become: ## \tilde{P}(k,\omega)=\tilde{\chi}(k,\omega) \tilde{E}(k,\omega) ## and ## \tilde{J}_p(k,\omega)=\tilde{\sigma}(k,\omega) \tilde{E}(k,\omega) ##. The equation ## J_p=\dot{P} ## (for the polarization current=it follows also from the continuity equation) and its Fourier transform ## \tilde{J}_p(k,\omega)=-i \omega \tilde{P}(k,\omega) ## tie these together, along with ## D(x,t)=\int \epsilon(x-x',t-t') E(x',t') \, d^3 x' \, dt' ## and its Fourier transform, ## \tilde{D}(k, \omega)=\tilde{\epsilon}(k,\omega) \tilde{E}(k,\omega) ## so that ## \tilde{\epsilon}(k,\omega)=1+4 \pi \tilde{\chi}(k,\omega) ##. ## \tilde{\sigma}(k,\omega) ## is the conductivity, and ## \tilde{\epsilon}(k,\omega) ## is the dielectric constant. I used cgs units so that ## D=E+4 \pi P ##, but conversion to any other units can be readily done. Hopefully this was helpful. (With a little algebra, you can solve for ## \tilde{\sigma}(k,\omega) ## in terms of ## \tilde{\epsilon}(k,\omega) ##). For a reference, Ichimaru's Plasma Physics book has much of this in the first couple of chapters.
 
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Note: The continuity equation is ## \nabla \cdot J_p+\frac{\partial \rho_p}{\partial t}=0 ##. Since ## \rho_p=-\nabla \cdot P ##, this gives ## \nabla \cdot (J_p-\dot{P})=0 ## which gives the result that the polarization charge current density ## J_p=\dot{P} ##.
 
Thanks so much Charles,
 
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Why can't I see the equations, only what I presume to be the code for equations?
 
Phellippe Marques said:
Why can't I see the equations, only what I presume to be the code for equations?
I think the app does not run whatever is needed to interpret MathJax. So users of the PF app will not see the rendered equations.
 
Aseel5 said:
Hello,
could you help me please about how can I calculate dielectric constant form electrical conductivity?

You have to be more specific? Do you mean in theory (see Charles response)? Or in practice (i.e. you have some data for the conductivity of a dielectric) ?
If it the latter the answer is that you can't, at least not in the general case. I can think of a few situations where it might work, but you would need data which -as far as I am aware- tends to be quite difficult to measure. It usually makes more sense to measure the dielectric constant directly by measuring the capacitance or -even better- putting the material in a resonator.
 
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