How Can I Linearize \( f(t) = \sin(\Phi(t)) \) Using Laplace Transform?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the linearization of the function \( f(t) = \sin(\Phi(t)) \) using the Laplace transform. Participants explore methods for achieving this linearization, particularly in the context of integrating it into a larger transfer function. The conversation touches on Taylor expansion as a potential approach, while also addressing the implications of linear approximations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using Taylor expansion to linearize \( f(t) = \sin(\Phi(t)) \), emphasizing that this approach is valid if \( \Phi(t) \) changes little over time.
  • Another participant questions the idea of a 6th order polynomial arising from a linear approximation, asserting that a linear approximation should be of the form \( \sin\phi(t) \approx a \, \phi(t) + b \).
  • There is a clarification that the linearity being discussed pertains to the frequency domain rather than the time domain, with a preference expressed for conversion over approximation.
  • One participant expresses confusion over the terminology used, particularly the reference to "it," and requests more explicit questions to better understand the problem being addressed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the nature of the linear approximation and its implications. There is no consensus on the best approach to linearize the function or the definitions being used in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of terms like "linearization" and "conversion," as well as the lack of clarity on the specific problem being solved. The discussion also highlights the dependence on the behavior of \( \Phi(t) \) over time.

Jarfi
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By using the laplace transform:

$f(t)=sin(Φ(t))$

I want it in the form:

F(S)/Φ(S)

The purpose is to linearize it in order to put it into a larger transfer function, so far my only solution is to simplify it using taylor expansion.
 
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Yes, you can linearize - just Taylor expand about the relavent point. However, since you really care about the Laplace transform of this, the linear approximation will only help you if ##\phi(t) ## changes very little for ##0<t<\infty##.
 
jasonRF said:
Yes, you can linearize - just Taylor expand about the relavent point. However, since you really care about the Laplace transform of this, the linear approximation will only help you if ##\phi(t) ## changes very little for ##0<t<\infty##.
Taylor expansion the sin function would yield a polynomial of several orders, say I had two 3 order approximated sinus functions in series(with an output between them), then I have a 6th order polynomial, increasing complexity. So i was hoping for another solution.

Φ is from 0-45°
 
I don't understand what you mean. A linear approximation is, by definition, linear. How would it be 6th order?

If you want a linear approximation, it obviously must be of the form ##\sin\phi(t) \approx a \, \phi(t) + b##. How you select ##a## and ##b## depends upon what criterion makes the most sense for the problem you are trying to solve. Unless you tell us what problem you are actually trying to solve I doubt I can help much more.

jason
 
jasonRF said:
I don't understand what you mean. A linear approximation is, by definition, linear. How would it be 6th order?

If you want a linear approximation, it obviously must be of the form ##\sin\phi(t) \approx a \, \phi(t) + b##. How you select ##a## and ##b## depends upon what criterion makes the most sense for the problem you are trying to solve. Unless you tell us what problem you are actually trying to solve I doubt I can help much more.

jason

It's linear in the frequency domain, NOT in the time domain: My preferrence is exactly not to approximate it, but to convert it. I already know how to approximate-linearize a sinus function
 
Jarfi said:
It's linear in the frequency domain, NOT in the time domain: My preferrence is exactly not to approximate it, but to convert it. I already know how to approximate-linearize a sinus function

Jarfi said:
By using the laplace transform:

$f(t)=sin(Φ(t))$

I want it in the form:

F(S)/Φ(S)

The purpose is to linearize it in order to put it into a larger transfer function, so far my only solution is to simplify it using taylor expansion.

I still don't know what you are asking - you use the word "it" a lot, and now it is clear that the word "it" may refer to different things in different places. So … what exactly are you trying to approximate and in what form? What do you mean by "convert it"? When you say linear, do you mean a linear function of ##\Phi(s)##, or a linear function of ##s##?

I would be happy to help if you answer these questions, or (probably better) just state a more explicit question that helps us understand what you are doing.

jason
 

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