How Can I Prove that a_{n+1}>a_n for All n in a Tough Sequence?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that the sequence defined by the recurrence relation a_{n+1}=3-\frac{1}{a_n} with a_1=1 satisfies the condition a_{n+1}>a_n for all n. Participants explore various methods of proof, including induction, direct comparison, and contradiction, while addressing the challenges and nuances involved in the proof process.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using induction to prove a_{n+1} > a_n by assuming the inequality holds for n and showing it for n-1.
  • Another participant expresses a preference against induction due to the amount of writing involved and proposes manipulating the recurrence relation directly.
  • A participant discusses the implications of the expression a_{n+1}-a_n and questions the positivity of the derived expression \frac{{a_n}^2+3a_n-1}{a_n}.
  • One participant proposes a contradiction approach by assuming a minimal n where a_n ≤ a_{n+1} and showing that this leads to a contradiction regarding the minimality of n.
  • Several participants engage in clarifying the concept of minimality in the context of their proofs.
  • Direct comparison is suggested as a method to show a_{n+1} > a_n, leading to discussions about the conditions under which this inequality holds.
  • Participants analyze the boundaries of a_n and the implications of the initial condition a_1=1 on the sequence's behavior.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views on how to approach the proof, with no consensus on a single method being preferred. Various techniques are discussed, but the effectiveness and clarity of each remain debated.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty regarding the positivity of certain expressions derived from the recurrence relation, and there are unresolved questions about the implications of boundary conditions on the sequence.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for those interested in mathematical proofs, particularly in the context of sequences and inequalities, as well as for individuals exploring different proof techniques in mathematics.

Shing
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[tex]a_{n+1}=3-\frac{1}{a_n}[/tex]
[tex]a_1=1[/tex]

How should I prove that [tex]a_{n+1}>a_n[/tex]
for all n, ?
I have tired to use counter example,
assuming
[tex]a_n>a_{n+1}[/tex]
then contradiction appears,
but I found that what I was doing is just to counter "for all n"



How should I prove that
[tex]a_{n+1}>a_n[/tex] ,for all n ?
 
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Induction seems to be the obvious choice. Try working backwards by assuming:
[tex]a_{n+1} > a_n[/tex]
and then showing that it implies [tex]a_n > a_{n-1}[/tex]. You should then be able to reverse the steps, prove [tex]a_2 > a_1[/tex] and the induction is complete.
 
probably I got it now,
thanks!
 
Last edited:
Well if I had to do this in an exam, I wouldn't use induction,too much for me to write and I don't like to write.

[tex] a_{n+1}=3-\frac{1}{a_n}[/tex]

[itex]-a_n[/itex] i.e. minus a_n from both sides of the equation.

[tex] a_{n+1}-a_n =3-\frac{1}{a_n} -a_n[/tex]

Bring the right side to the same denominator and see what happens.From the expression for [itex]a_{n+1}[/itex] and [itex]a_1=1[/itex], what does that say for [itex]a_n[/itex]?
 
rock.freak667 said:
Well if I had to do this in an exam, I wouldn't use induction,too much for me to write and I don't like to write.

[tex] a_{n+1}=3-\frac{1}{a_n}[/tex]

[itex]-a_n[/itex] i.e. minus a_n from both sides of the equation.

[tex] a_{n+1}-a_n =3-\frac{1}{a_n} -a_n[/tex]

Bring the right side to the same denominator and see what happens.From the expression for [itex]a_{n+1}[/itex] and [itex]a_1=1[/itex], what does that say for [itex]a_n[/itex]?

If you mean [itex]a_{n+1}-a_n[/itex] is positive as [itex]\frac{{a_n}^2+3a_n-1}{a_n}[/itex] is positive and that implies [itex]a_{n+1}>a_n[/itex]

but how do you know that [itex]\frac{{a_n}^2+3a_n-1}{a_n}[/itex] is positive?
or [itex]{a_n}^2+3a_n>1[/itex]?
 
If you want to avoid typing out an inductive argument, simply assume the minimality of n.

Assume for contradiction that there exist at least one n such that [itex]a_{n} \leq a_{n+1}[/itex]. Let [itex]m[/itex] be the smallest integer such integer. Then:
[tex]a_{m} \leq a_{m+1} \Rightarrow 3-\frac{1}{a_{m-1}} \leq 3-\frac{1}{a_m} \Rightarrow a_{m-1} \leq a_m[/tex]
This contradicts the minimality of m.
 
gunch said:
If you want to avoid typing out an inductive argument, simply assume the minimality of n.

Assume for contradiction that there exist at least one n such that [itex]a_{n} \leq a_{n+1}[/itex]. Let [itex]m[/itex] be the smallest integer such integer. Then:
[tex]a_{m} \leq a_{m+1} \Rightarrow 3-\frac{1}{a_{m-1}} \leq 3-\frac{1}{a_m} \Rightarrow a_{m-1} \leq a_m[/tex]
This contradicts the minimality of m.
What is the minimality of n?
I checked this in the Internet, is it something about Strong minimality theory??
 
No it's simply a way to say that m is the least possible. We assumed that [itex]m[/itex] was the smallest value for which the original statement was false, but we showed that this implies that [itex]m-1[/itex] makes the original statement false. There exist a value smaller than m even though we assumed m was the smallest, therefore there can't exist a smallest element.
 
edit: Sorry, was wrong :)
 
  • #10
Direct Proof?

[tex]a_{n+1}=3-\frac{1}{a_n}[/tex]
[tex]a_1=1[/tex]

Prove: [itex]a_{n+1}>a_n[/itex] for all n?

Let's use a direct comparison:

[tex]a_{n+1} > a_n[/tex]
[tex]3 - \frac{1}{a_n} > a_n[/tex]
[tex]\frac{a_n^2-3a_n+1}{a_n} < 0[/tex]

This is zero or undefined for [itex]a_n = \frac{3 \pm \sqrt{5}}{2}, 0[/itex]

The solution to this inequality is [itex]a_n < \frac{3 - \sqrt{5}}{2} \cup 0 < a_n < \frac{3 + \sqrt{5}}{2}[/itex].

Since [itex]a_1[/itex] is in the solution set, this is shown to be true.

Now we have to show that you can't jump boundaries for [itex]a_1 = 1[/itex].
 
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  • #11
I made a mistake in my initial reply here it is fixed.

[tex]a_{n+1}=3-\frac{1}{a_n}[/tex]
[tex]a_1=1[/tex]

Prove: [itex]a_{n+1}>a_n[/itex] for all n?

Let's use a direct comparison:

[tex]a_{n+1} > a_n[/tex]
[tex]3 - \frac{1}{a_n} > a_n[/tex]
[tex]\frac{a_n^2-3a_n+1}{a_n} < 0[/tex]

This is zero or undefined for [itex]a_n = \frac{3 \pm \sqrt{5}}{2}, 0[/itex]

The solution to this inequality is [itex]a_n < 0 \cup \frac{3 - \sqrt{5}}{2} < a_n < \frac{3 + \sqrt{5}}{2}[/itex].

Since [itex]a_1[/itex] is in the solution set, this is shown to be true.

Now we have to show that you can't jump boundaries for [itex]a_1 = 1[/itex].
 
  • #12
Since [itex]a_1 = 1[/itex] lies in the second boundary, we will only work with that boundary.

Next we have to find all values for [itex]a_n[/itex] that will allow [itex]\frac{3-\sqrt{5}}{2} < 3 - \frac{1}{a_n} < \frac{3+\sqrt{5}}{2}[/itex] to be true.

[tex]\frac{3-\sqrt{5}}{2} < 3 - \frac{1}{a_n}[/tex]
[tex]a_n < 0 \cup a_n > \frac{3-\sqrt{5}}{2}[/tex]

[tex]\frac{3+\sqrt{5}}{2} > 3 - \frac{1}{a_n}[/tex]
[tex]0 < a_n < \frac{3+\sqrt{5}}{2}[/tex]

The intersection of those intervals yields: [itex]\frac{3-\sqrt{5}}{2} < a_n < \frac{3+\sqrt{5}}{2}[/itex]

Since [itex]a_1=1[/itex] is in our interval we know that [itex]a_{n+1}[/itex] will not jump out of the good interval.

Is this good enough?
 
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