How Can Maxwell's Equations Be Derived from the Given Tensor Equations?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving Maxwell's equations from given tensor equations involving the electromagnetic field tensor \( F_{\mu \nu} \). The original poster presents a specific problem statement that includes the equations \( \partial^{\mu} F_{\mu \nu} = 0 \) and \( \partial_{\mu}F_{\nu \rho} + \partial_{\nu} F_{\rho \mu} + \partial_{\rho}F_{\mu \nu} = 0 \), along with definitions for \( F_{ij} \) and \( F_{i0} \). The goal is to show that \( \partial^{\mu}T_{\mu \nu} = 0 \) holds true, where \( T_{\mu \nu} \) is defined in terms of \( F_{\mu \nu} \).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore various algebraic manipulations of the tensor equations, questioning the steps taken and the implications of index renaming. There is a focus on how to rearrange terms and apply the second Maxwell equation to progress in the derivation. Some participants express uncertainty about the correctness of sign changes and the overall direction of the derivation.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants offering suggestions for renaming indices and rearranging terms to clarify the relationships between the expressions. There is a recognition of the need to manipulate the terms carefully, and some participants express uncertainty about the next steps while others provide guidance on potential approaches. No explicit consensus has been reached, but productive lines of reasoning are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of the problem statement, which includes specific equations and definitions. There is an ongoing examination of the assumptions related to the antisymmetry of the tensor \( F^{\alpha \beta} \) and how it affects the manipulation of terms in the derivation.

CAF123
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Homework Statement


Show one can obtain Maxwell's equations from $$\partial^{\mu} F_{\mu \nu} = 0\,\,\,; \,\, \partial_{\mu}F_{\nu \rho} + \partial_{\nu} F_{\rho \mu} + \partial_{\rho}F_{\mu \nu} = 0,$$ where ##F_{ij} = \epsilon_{ijk}B_k## and ##F_{i0} = E_i## with ##F_{\mu \nu} = - F_{\nu \mu}##.
From these two equations, show that one also has ##\partial^{\mu}T_{\mu \nu} = 0##, where ##T_{\mu \nu} = F_{\mu \rho}F_{\nu \sigma} \eta^{\rho \sigma} - \frac{1}{4} \eta_{\mu \nu} F_{\alpha \beta}F^{\alpha \beta}##

Homework Equations



All given in problem statement

The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
I've done the first part of the question.

My working for the second part is shown below. Insert ##T_{\mu \nu}## and contract with ##\partial^{\mu}##. This gives

$$(\partial^{\mu}F_{\mu \rho}) F_{\nu \sigma} \eta^{\rho \sigma} + F_{\mu \rho}(\partial^{\mu} F_{\nu \sigma}) \eta^{\rho \sigma} - \frac{1}{4}\eta_{\mu \nu}(\partial^{\mu}F_{\alpha \beta})F^{\alpha \beta} - \frac{1}{4} \eta_{\mu \nu} F_{\alpha \beta}(\partial^{\mu}F^{\alpha \beta})$$
The first term is zero by Maxwell eqn. In the last term, lower the index on the ##\partial^{\mu}## term and then use the fact that ##\eta_{\mu \nu} \eta^{\mu \gamma} = \delta^{\gamma}_{\nu}## to reduce the last term to ##\frac{1}{4} F_{\alpha \beta} \partial_{\nu} F^{\alpha \beta}##. The same analysis can be applied on third term. Then use the fact that ##F^{\alpha \beta} = F_{\rho \sigma} \eta^{\alpha \rho} \eta^{\beta \sigma}##. The third and fourth terms are then identical and the whole expression reduces to $$F_{\mu \rho} \eta^{\mu \alpha} \partial_{\alpha} F_{\nu \sigma} \eta^{\rho \sigma} - \frac{1}{2} (\partial_{\nu}F_{\alpha \beta})F^{\alpha \beta} = F^{\alpha \sigma} \partial_{\alpha} F_{\nu \sigma} - \frac{1}{2} (\partial_{\nu}F_{\alpha \beta})F^{\alpha \beta}$$. I'm unsure of a next step. Possibly rearrange ##\partial_{\alpha}F_{\nu \sigma}## using the second Maxwell eqn above but not sure if this would help.

Many thanks.
 
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CAF123 said:
$$ F^{\alpha \sigma} \partial_{\alpha} F_{\nu \sigma} - \frac{1}{2} (\partial_{\nu}F_{\alpha \beta})F^{\alpha \beta}$$. I'm unsure of a next step. Possibly rearrange ##\partial_{\alpha}F_{\nu \sigma}## using the second Maxwell eqn above but not sure if this would help.

Yes, that would be a good idea. Also, note that in the first term, the index ##\sigma## is a dummy index. Think about renaming this index so that the term looks more similar to the last term.
 
TSny said:
Yes, that would be a good idea. Also, note that in the first term, the index ##\sigma## is a dummy index. Think about renaming this index so that the term looks more similar to the last term.
Hi TSny, yes that would give $$\frac{1}{2 } ( \partial_{\nu} F_{\alpha \beta })F^{\alpha \beta} - (\partial_{\beta}F_{\alpha \nu})F^{\alpha \beta}$$ Still a bit unclear as to how to progress, thanks.
 
CAF123 said:
Hi TSny, yes that would give $$\frac{1}{2 } ( \partial_{\nu} F_{\alpha \beta })F^{\alpha \beta} - (\partial_{\beta}F_{\alpha \nu})F^{\alpha \beta}$$ Still a bit unclear as to how to progress, thanks.

Not sure of all the things you did here. Especially the sign changes. Let's see. You had $$ F^{\alpha \sigma} \partial_{\alpha} F_{\nu \sigma} - \frac{1}{2} (\partial_{\nu}F_{\alpha \beta})F^{\alpha \beta}$$
And, for now, you just want to rename the dummy index ##\sigma## in the first term to something more appropriate. If that's all you do, then what do you get?
 
TSny said:
Not sure of all the things you did here.
I used the second Maxwell equation to rearrange the ##\partial_{\alpha}F_{\nu \sigma}## term and collected terms by setting ##\sigma \rightarrow \beta##.
And, for now, you just want to rename the dummy index ##\sigma## in the first term to something more appropriate. If that's all you do, then what do you get?
This would give $$F^{\alpha \beta}\partial_{\alpha} F_{\nu \beta} - \frac{1}{2}(\partial_{\nu} F_{\alpha \beta})F^{\alpha \beta}$$ where I relabelled ##\sigma## to ##\beta##.
 
CAF123 said:
I used the second Maxwell equation to rearrange the ##\partial_{\alpha}F_{\nu \sigma}## term and collected terms by setting ##\sigma \rightarrow \beta##.

OK. For me, it seems to work out quicker if I use the 2nd Maxwell equation on the term with the 1/2 factor.

This would give $$F^{\alpha \beta}\partial_{\alpha} F_{\nu \beta} - \frac{1}{2}(\partial_{\nu} F_{\alpha \beta})F^{\alpha \beta}$$ where I relabelled ##\sigma## to ##\beta##.

Now try the 2nd ME on the term with the 1/2.
 
TSny said:
Now try the 2nd ME on the term with the 1/2.
Ok, so reexpress the second term as ##-\frac{1}{2} (-\partial_{\alpha}F_{\beta \nu} - \partial_{\beta} F_{\nu \alpha})## and altogether this gives $$F^{\alpha \beta} \left\{ \frac{1}{2}\partial_{\alpha} F_{\nu \beta} + \frac{1}{2}\partial_{\beta}F_{\nu \alpha} \right\}.$$ Then interchange ##\alpha## and ##\beta## to give $$\frac{1}{2}F^{\beta \alpha} ( \partial_{\beta} F_{\nu \alpha} + \partial_{\alpha}F_{\nu \beta}) = - \frac{1}{2}F^{\alpha \beta} (\partial_{\beta}F_{\nu \alpha} + \partial_{\alpha}F_{\nu \beta})$$ So we have something like ##X=-X## and this conclude ##X=0## as required. Right?
 
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CAF123 said:
Ok, so reexpress the second term as ##-\frac{1}{2} (-\partial_{\alpha}F_{\beta \nu} - \partial_{\beta} F_{\nu \alpha})## and altogether this gives $$F^{\alpha \beta} \left\{ \frac{1}{2}\partial_{\alpha} F_{\nu \beta} + \frac{1}{2}\partial_{\beta}F_{\nu \alpha} \right\}.$$ Then interchange ##\alpha## and ##\beta## to give $$\frac{1}{2}F^{\beta \alpha} ( \partial_{\beta} F_{\nu \alpha} + \partial_{\alpha}F_{\nu \beta}) = - \frac{1}{2}F^{\alpha \beta} (\partial_{\beta}F_{\nu \alpha} + \partial_{\alpha}F_{\nu \beta})$$ So we have something like ##X=-X## and this conclude ##X=0## as required. Right?

Yes, that will get it. Good.

Or, note that if you contract ##F^{\alpha \beta}## with any tensor ##B_{\mu \nu \sigma}##, say, to get the expression ##F^{\alpha \beta}B_{\alpha \beta \nu}## , then due to the antisymmetry of ##F^{\alpha \beta}##, you get the identity $$F^{\alpha \beta}B_{\alpha \beta \nu} = -F^{\beta \alpha}B_{\alpha \beta \nu} = -F^{\alpha \beta}B_{\beta \alpha \nu}$$ where the last equality is just renaming dummy indices.

Thus interchanging the contracted indices on B in the expression ##F^{\alpha \beta}B_{\alpha \beta \nu}## just changes the overall sign of the expression.

You have $$F^{\alpha \beta} \left\{ \frac{1}{2}\partial_{\alpha} F_{\nu \beta} + \frac{1}{2}\partial_{\beta}F_{\nu \alpha} \right\} = \frac{1}{2}F^{\alpha \beta}\partial_{\alpha} F_{\nu \beta} + \frac{1}{2}F^{\alpha \beta}\partial_{\beta}F_{\nu \alpha} $$ How does the second term compare to the first term?
 
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TSny said:
You have $$F^{\alpha \beta} \left\{ \frac{1}{2}\partial_{\alpha} F_{\nu \beta} + \frac{1}{2}\partial_{\beta}F_{\nu \alpha} \right\} = \frac{1}{2}F^{\alpha \beta}\partial_{\alpha} F_{\nu \beta} + \frac{1}{2}F^{\alpha \beta}\partial_{\beta}F_{\nu \alpha} $$ How does the second term compare to the first term?

The second term is minus the first term. ##\frac{1}{2}F^{\alpha \beta}\partial_{\beta}F_{\nu \alpha} = \frac{1}{2}F^{\beta \alpha}\partial_{\alpha}F_{\nu \beta} = -\frac{1}{2}F^{\alpha \beta}\partial_{\alpha}F_{\nu \beta}## and so the whole expression reduces to 0.
 
  • #10
Yes, that's right.
 

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