How can the e- escape by overcome the suck force in β- decay

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    Decay Escape Force
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms of β- decay, specifically how electrons can escape the attractive force of the nucleus despite the presence of a Coulomb barrier. Participants explore the implications of energy levels, tunneling effects, and the differences between β- decay and other decay processes like β+ decay and electron capture.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the nucleus exerts a strong attractive force on the electron in β- decay, raising questions about how the electron can overcome this force with relatively low energy (Q(β-)).
  • Another participant references Fermi Theory, indicating that the energy/momentum distribution of electrons accounts for Coulomb interactions and results in different spectra for electrons and positrons.
  • A participant argues that the energy required for the electron to escape is already considered in the decay energy, and if the energy is insufficient, decay does not occur, dismissing the relevance of tunneling in this context.
  • There is a discussion about the initial velocity of the electron at the exit point and its relationship to the attractive force, with some participants expressing confusion over the dynamics involved.
  • One participant speculates about the absence of positron capture decay, suggesting that a Coulomb barrier might be a factor, while another notes that positron capture would require the presence of positrons nearby.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of tunneling in β- decay and the dynamics of electron escape, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on specific interpretations of energy distributions and Coulomb barriers, which may depend on the definitions and assumptions used in the discussion. The relationship between energy levels and decay processes is not fully settled.

kiwaho
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Not like decay of β+ or EC(electron capture), in β- decay, the nucleus positive charges definitely exerts strong suck force to negative charged electron, and the heavier the nuclide, the stronger the force!

So, no coulomb barrier for β+/EC, but does for β- decay.

How can the electron in a β- radioactive isotope can overcome that super strong attractive force even in just a few energy Q(β-) of single digital KeV?

Also wondering why no significant influence between light nuclides and heavy nuclides for the said factor.

I guess it is the magic tunneling effect?

And supposedly in β-, the initial velocity at the exit point should be smaller than the velocity at a little far distance to exit point, because the suck force is inversely proportional to the square of distance. But in fact, it seems not like that.

Deducedly, in same energy Q(β), β+/EC should be easier than β-, that is why our universe is not symmetric in the abundance of quasi-stable isotope. For example, you can see the β- potential Rb-87 with abundance 28%, In-115 with abundance 96%, Re-187 with abundance 63% and Q(β-) only 2467eV, and so on, but nobody can enumerate high abundance of β+ potential nuclides. The God is really left-handed!

There is electron capture, why is not there positive electron capture, or say positron capture decay? I boldly predict it should have e+ capture along with β- decay. Let's work hard to prove it.
 
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It can.
The electron energy/momentum distribution follows from the Fermi Theory [which takes into account the coulomb interactions through the Fermi function, and results to different spectra for electrons and positrons].
 
kiwaho said:
How can the electron in a β- radioactive isotope can overcome that super strong attractive force even in just a few energy Q(β-) of single digital KeV?
The attraction between electron and nucleus is already taken into account in that energy. It is the remaining energy that is left after the electron escaped "to infinity".
If the energy is not sufficient for the electron to escape, the decay does not happen.

This has nothing to do with tunneling - there is no region of lower potential energy outside.
kiwaho said:
And supposedly the initial velocity at the exit point should be smaller than the velocity at a little far distance to exit point, because the suck force is inversely proportional to the square of distance. But in fact, it seems not like that.
That does not make sense.
 
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mfb said:
The attraction between electron and nucleus is already taken into account in that energy. It is the remaining energy that is left after the electron escaped "to infinity".
If the energy is not sufficient for the electron to escape, the decay does not happen.

This has nothing to do with tunneling - there is no region of lower potential energy outside.
That does not make sense.
I see now. Thank you mfb.
But for e+ capture, there should exist coulomb barrier. Maybe that is why no e+ capture decay?
 
e+ capture would need e+ around...
 

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