How confident are we of the neutrino CMB energy density?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the energy density of neutrinos in the context of the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) and its implications for primordial nucleosynthesis, particularly regarding the 7Li problem. Participants explore the assumptions behind the neutrino temperature relative to the CMB photon temperature and question the reliability of these conclusions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the CMB neutrino temperature is (4/11)^(1/3) of the CMB photon temperature, based on entropy arguments, assuming massless neutrinos.
  • Others express uncertainty about the implications of neutrinos having a small but non-zero mass on the energy density conclusions.
  • A participant mentions the 7Li problem and provides a reference to a paper for further reading, indicating a lack of familiarity with the issue.
  • One participant doubts the reliability of the conclusions regarding neutrino contributions to the CMB, noting that neutrinos have been considered in CMB observations.
  • Another participant highlights the difficulty in measuring the 7Li problem and suggests it may stem from either stellar physics or big bang nucleosynthesis uncertainties.
  • A recent paper is shared that discusses the 7Li problem, indicating ongoing research in this area.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the reliability of the conclusions regarding neutrino energy density and its implications for the 7Li problem. There is no consensus on whether alternative analyses could yield different results.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the assumptions involved in the entropy argument and the challenges in measuring the 7Li problem, which may depend on various factors in stellar and nucleosynthesis physics.

BillSaltLake
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From an entropy argument it is concluded that the CMB neutrino temperature is (4/11)1/3 of the CMB photon temperature. This assumes massless neutrinos. Although neutrino contribution to the present energy density is therefore very small, it was significant must earlier, such as at the time of the Last Scattering Surface. How reliable is this conclusion? Is there a different analysis that would yield a different result, so that for example 7Li nucleosynthesis might be reconciled (although I'm not sure that there is an adjustment of the neutrino density that could fix the Li problem)?
 
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From what I have read, neutrinos have a small but non-zero mass.
I'm not sure how that effects everything though.
 
BillSaltLake said:
From an entropy argument it is concluded that the CMB neutrino temperature is (4/11)1/3 of the CMB photon temperature. This assumes massless neutrinos. Although neutrino contribution to the present energy density is therefore very small, it was significant must earlier, such as at the time of the Last Scattering Surface. How reliable is this conclusion? Is there a different analysis that would yield a different result, so that for example 7Li nucleosynthesis might be reconciled (although I'm not sure that there is an adjustment of the neutrino density that could fix the Li problem)?
Well, neutrinos have long been taken into account in CMB observations, so I really doubt it.

But in any event, the 7Li problem is way, way down at the tail of primordial nucleosynthesis where it is very hard to measure. At present we just can't say for sure whether the problem appears as a result of our lack of understanding of stellar physics, or whether it's our lack of understanding of some of the precise details of big bang nucleosynthesis.
 
Here's a paper that just came out today arxiv.org/abs/1107.1117 that talks about the 7Li problem.
 

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