How did Einstein come to the conclusion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on how Einstein arrived at the conclusion that nothing can exceed the speed of light, exploring the implications of this idea within the framework of special relativity and causality. Participants examine historical experiments, theoretical postulates, and the broader implications of faster-than-light (FTL) motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that Einstein's conclusion was influenced by the Michelson-Morley Experiment, which failed to detect a difference in the speed of light based on the observer's motion.
  • Others argue that Einstein combined two postulates: the constancy of the speed of light in all inertial frames and the uniformity of physical laws across these frames, leading to the development of special relativity.
  • A later reply challenges the common understanding of Einstein's postulate, asserting that he accepted the round-trip speed of light as a universal constant and defined the one-way speed of light as a constant, independent of experimental evidence.
  • Participants discuss the implications of FTL motion, noting that it could lead to causality violations, where different observers might disagree on the order of events.
  • One participant mentions that while special relativity has been extensively verified, the speed limit in curved spacetime remains less established, and there are theoretical scenarios that could allow for causality violations.
  • There are various hypothetical scenarios discussed regarding FTL motion, including the need for exotic matter and the potential for time travel, but these remain speculative and unproven.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of Einstein's postulates and the implications of FTL motion, indicating that multiple competing perspectives exist without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on specific interpretations of Einstein's writings and the implications of experimental evidence, which may not be universally accepted. The discussion also touches on unresolved questions regarding the nature of causality in different spacetime geometries.

imsmooth
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How did Einstein come to the conclusion that nothing can go faster than the speed of light?

Did he base it on the failure of the Michelson-Morley Experiment to determine a difference in the speed of light based on the measurement?
 
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imsmooth said:
How did Einstein come to the conclusion that nothing can go faster than the speed of light?

Did he base it on the failure of the Michelson-Morley Experiment to determine a difference in the speed of light based on the measurement?
Partially, yes. He combined two postulates, one (supported by M-M) that the speed of light is a constant in any inertial reference frame, the other that the laws of physics are the same in every inertial reference frame. He went on to derive the special theory of relativity to reconcile those two (seemingly contradictory) postulates.

And when you do the subsequent math for two sequential events, for example a signal sent and received, you find that if the signal traveled faster than light, there would be inertial reference frames in which the signal was received before it was sent, violating accepted laws of causality.

In addition, it was also found that an object's resistance to acceleration increases with its velocity, reaching infinity at the speed of light, making it impossible to accelerate any object with mass to the speed of light.

Finally, the above is a completely inadequate explanation, a complete one would require a good understanding of Newtonian laws of motion, frames of reference, and why it is so bizarre that light travels at the same constant speed relative to every observer regardless of their own velocity.
 
Al68 said:
He combined two postulates, one (supported by M-M) that the speed of light is a constant in any inertial reference frame, the other that the laws of physics are the same in every inertial reference frame. He went on to derive the special theory of relativity to reconcile those two (seemingly contradictory) postulates.
This is a very commonly believed but totally wrong understanding of Einstein's postulate concerning the speed of light. You should study his 1905 paper. You will see that he accepted the experimental evidence from the MMX that the measured round-trip speed of light is a universal constant. He postulated that the unmeasureable one-way (both halves of the round-trip) speed of light is a constant. This is an arbitrary definition that has nothing to do with MMX or any other experiment that has ever been done or ever could be done. It forms the basis of synchronizing clocks in any inertial frame of reference. It was this definition of the one-way speed of light that was seemingly contradictory to the other postulate, because the round-trip speed of light is not contradictory to the other postulate. Do you understand why?
 
FAQ: Why can't anything go faster than the speed of light?

In flat spacetime, velocities greater than c lead to violations of causality: observer 1 says that event A caused event B, but observer 2, in a different state of motion, says that B caused A. Since violation of causality can produce paradoxes, we suspect that cause and effect can't be propagated at velocities greater than c in flat spacetime. Special relativity is one of the most precisely and extensively verified theories in physics, and in particular no violation of this speed limit for cause and effect has ever been detected -- not by radiation, material particles, or any other method of transmitting information, such as quantum entanglement. Particle accelerators routinely accelerate protons to energies of 1 TeV, where their velocity is 0.9999996c, and the results are exactly as predicted by general relativity: as the velocity approaches c, a given force produces less and less acceleration, so that the protons never exceed c.

The corresponding speed limit in curved spacetime is far from being established. The argument from causality is not watertight. General relativity has spacetimes, such as the Godel solution, that are valid solutions of the field equations, and that violate causality. Hawking's chronology protection conjecture says that this kind of causality violation can't arise from realistic conditions in our universe -- but that's all it is, a conjecture. Nobody has proved it. In fact, there is a major current research program that consists of nothing more than trying to *define* rigorously what the chronology protection conjecture means.

There are certain things we *can* say about faster-than-light (FTL) motion, based on the fundamental structure of general relativity. It would definitely be equivalent to time travel, so any science fiction that has routine FTL without routine time travel is just plain wrong. It would probably require the existence of exotic matter, which probably doesn't exist. If it were possible to produce FTL artificially, it would certainly require the manipulation of godlike amounts of matter and energy -- so great that it is unlikely that beings able to carry it out would have anything like ordinary human concerns.

There are many ways that velocities greater than c can appear in relativity without violating any of the above considerations. For example, one can point a laser at the moon and sweep it across, so that the spot moves at a speed greater than c, but that doesn't mean that cause and effect are being propagated at greater than c. Other examples of this kind include a pair of cosmic-sized scissors cutting through a gigantic piece of paper at greater than c; phase velocities greater than c; and distant, observable galaxies receding from us at greater than c, which can be interpreted as an effect in which space itself is expanding in the space in between.
 

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