How did they come up with this completed reaction

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the chemical reaction between sodium carbonate (Na2CO3) and hydrochloric acid (HCl), specifically how the products of the reaction are derived. Participants explore the mechanisms and equilibria involved in the reaction, questioning the presence of certain species in the products.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants present the completed reaction as Na2CO3 + 2HCl ⇔ 2NaCl + H2O + CO2 and inquire about how this result is achieved.
  • Others express confusion regarding the absence of hydronium ions (H3O+) in the completed reaction, questioning why the reaction does not yield H2CO3 as an intermediate.
  • One participant points out that the initial equation provided is balanced, but highlights that the second equation lacks a coefficient for HCl, leading to an imbalance.
  • Another participant argues that the focus should not solely be on balancing but rather on understanding the reaction pathway and why certain products are formed over others.
  • Some participants propose alternative pathways involving carbonic acid (H2CO3) and its dissociation, leading to different products, including H3O+ and carbonate ions (CO3).
  • There is mention of the equilibria present in the solution and how they relate to the overall reaction, with one participant suggesting a net equation that simplifies the process to H2CO3 ⇔ H2O + CO2.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the reaction pathway and the presence of certain ions in the products. There is no consensus on the mechanisms or the necessity of hydronium ions in the reaction.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the importance of charge conservation in the reaction, raising questions about the source of charges in the proposed mechanisms. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of the equilibria involved in the reaction.

lechatelier
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This is what the completed reaction looks like
Na2CO3 + 2HCl ⇔ 2NaCl + H2O + CO2

My question is how did they get the products in the above reaction.

Here is my attempt, but I don't see how to get it like in the above reaction
Na2CO3 + HCl ⇔ NaCl + HCO3

The HCO3 breaks down as follows:

HCO3 + H2O ⇔ H3O+ + CO2

So my question is how did they only get H2O + CO2 in the top reaction without the hydronium H3O+ ??

Thanks
 
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lechatelier said:
Here is my attempt, but I don't see how to get it like in the above reaction
Na2CO3 + HCl ⇔ NaCl + HCO3

There is a Na missing.

lechatelier said:
The HCO3 breaks down as follows:

HCO3 + H2O ⇔ H3O+ + CO2

Where does the charge comes from?
 
lechatelier said:
So my question is how did they only get H2O + CO2 in the top reaction without the hydronium H3O+ ??

Apart from what DrS wrote, solution of HCl contains plenty of H+.
 
Well, the first equation you gave us is balanced. The reactants and products both contain:

3 O
2 Na
2 Cl
2 H
1 C

However, your second equation is missing a coefficient in front of one of the reactants. You wrote: Na2CO3 + HCl ⇔ NaCl + HCO3. This is not balanced properly, because on the reactant side you have 2 Na, and on the product side you only account for 1 Na. If you add a two in front of the HCl in the second equation, you get the correct products for the completed reaction of:

Na2CO3 + 2HCl ⇔ 2NaCl + H2O + CO2.
 
Last edited:
Heavymetal:

It's not a question about balancing!

I could balance the equation no problem. The question is why the reaction doesn't go this route:

Na2CO3 + 2HCl ⇔ 2NaCl + H2CO3

The H2CO3 breaks down as follows:

H2CO3+ H2O ⇔ H3O+ + HCO3

The HCO3 breaks down as follows:

HCO3+ H2O ⇔ H3O+ + CO3

So I got H3O+ + CO3 but why is it that the correct reaction has H2O + CO2 (at the top, at the beginning of this post) without the hydronium ion H3O+ and CO3 ??
 
DrStupid said:
There is a Na missing.



Where does the charge comes from?

Are you serious in asking me where the +ive charge on a hydronium ion came from?
 
I believe it goes:

H2CO3 + 2H2O ⇔ HCO3- + "H3O+" + H2O
HCO3- + "H3O+" + H2O ⇔ CO32- + 2"H3O+"
CO32- + 2"H3O+" ⇔ 3H2O + CO2

I say "H3O+" because it doesn't actually take shape of the hydronium ion here. So if you cancel out the 2 H2O from the beginning, and the 2 out of the 3 in the end, you get a net equation that looks like:

H2CO3 ⇔ H2O + CO2

However, it probably looks more like this:

H2CO3 ⇔ HCO3- + H+(aq)
HCO3- + H+(aq) ⇔ CO32- + 2H+(aq)
CO32- + 2H+(aq) ⇔ H2O + CO2
 
HeavyMetal said:
you get a net equation that looks like:

H2CO3 ⇔ H2O + CO2

That's the main equation here, everything else is just an alternative take on the several equilibria present in the solution.
 
lechatelier said:
Are you serious in asking me where the +ive charge on a hydronium ion came from?

Yes, I do. The net quantity of electric charge must not change.
 

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