# How did you guys become a science advisor in physics forums/ quantum physics?

vanesch said:
I don't know, apart from the high temperature superconductors, what work was actually receiving a prize for purely empirical discovery, though... Do you know of any ? Most if not all was the experimental demonstration of certain theoretical predictions, no ?

cheers,
Patrick.
Not that much really...Experimentalists always like to say that quasi all particles were descovered by experiments. This is too naive a picture. There really has to be a bunch if clues that suggest well if we set up a specific experiment, what will we achive and what will we get ? In the case of most particles, experiments showed strange unkown and unpredicted results, so indeed there has to be something else... The actual caraterization of that "else" is done by the theorists...so i would certainly not say that electrons were discovered by experiments...that is a bit like cheating, wouldn't you say ??? I mean if there is no theory that gives hints and possible suggestions, then what does remain apart from pure luck, hat explains the "discovery"

marlon

ZapperZ
Staff Emeritus
inha said:
I think there's been a bunch of Nobels given out on experimental discovery followed by the developed theory. So not exactly experimental demonstration of theoretical predictions.
There have been award. The W and Z vector bosons were well predicted for the weak theory. Rubia and Van der meer were awarded the Nobel prize for such discovery (more like confirmation) of the theory. If anyone heads up the group that discover the predicted Higgs, I'm sure that would be a Nobel caliber discovery too.

However, if you look closely, this isn't that common. In most cases, it is the theory that follows the discovery, even in cases where both the experimentalists and the theorists were awarded the Nobel Prize together. Example: the fractional quantum hall effect. Even though Laughlin came up with his theory for the fractional quantum hall effect years after the initial discovery, he was awarded the prize at the same time as the two principle experimentalists.

Zz.

dextercioby
Homework Helper
RE post #25.

Nope,Zapper.G-S-W- presented (1961 and 1967) the theory of electroweak interactions and it predicted the existence of 2 massive charged and one massive neutral boson,which were discovered in 1983 at CERN by a team lead by Carlo Rubbia.

The theorists were awarded the Nobel prize in 1979,before their theory was expermentally chacked.

Daniel.

P.S.You're venturing into dagerous grounds,Zapper.

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ZapperZ
Staff Emeritus
dextercioby said:
Nope,Zapper.G-S-W- presented (1961 and 1967) the theory of electroweak interactions and it predicted the existence of 2 massive charged and one massive neutral boson,which were discovered in 1983 at CERN by a team lead by Carlo Rubbia.
Ugh! You're right. For some odd reason, I read "Feyman's" NON-EXISTENT name in there and automatically latched on to QED!

You may spank me now!

Zz.

dextercioby said:
RE post #25.

Nope,Zapper.G-S-W- presented (1961 and 1967) the theory of electroweak interactions and it predicted the existence of 2 massive charged and one massive neutral boson,which were discovered in 1983 at CERN by a team lead by Carlo Rubbia.

The theorists were awarded the Nobel prize in 1979,before their theory was expermentally chacked.

Daniel.

P.S.You're venturing into dagerous grounds,Zapper.
Correct...Again an example where theory creates and experiment just confirms...It cannot go the other way around.

marlon

ZapperZ
Staff Emeritus
dextercioby said:
The theorists were awarded the Nobel prize in 1979,before their theory was expermentally chacked.

Daniel.

P.S.You're venturing into dagerous grounds,Zapper.
Nope.. I am not. Upon reading the Nobel prize citation, I will still insist that there were already verifications of major parts of the electroweak theory, even though the "neutral currents" of the Z bosons were not not discovered yet.

http://nobelprize.org/physics/laureates/1979/press.html

In particular, the section on the first observation of such phenomenon clearly indicates that this has been done. Furthermore, the electroweak theory clearly builds on top of QED and the existing nuclear decay process. As with QED, it is trying to come up with a new picture for a wealth of existing observations.

Zz.

dextercioby
Homework Helper
Untill what year were those "already verifications of major parts of the electroweak theory"...?Till 1961...?

Lemme remind you that the rigurous attempt to weak theory had been made only 3 years before,in 1958,by Richard P.Feynman and Murray Gell-Mann.It gave the theoretical account for the 1956-discovered parity violation.

So in that 3 year-span till Glashaw's article,what were those experimental breakthroughs who'd suggest the necessity of a new gauge group $U(1)\otimes SU(2)$...?

Daniel.

Daniel (the echo).

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jtbell
Mentor
Weak neutral-current interactions of neutrinos were first observed at CERN, using the Gargamelle bubble chamber, in 1972 or 1973. By the late '70s several neutrino experiments were studying them (I worked on one of them as a grad student), and getting results that were in line with the GSW electroweak theory.

Other aspects of the theory had been tested thoroughly by that time, in particular the "Weinberg mixing angle" which had been measured several different ways with consistent results.

By the time the W and Z bosons were finally observed "directly", it was pretty much like putting frosting on a cake.

SpaceTiger
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Terra Incognita said:
:shy: How did you guys become a science advisor in physics forums/ quantum physics?
I offered Moonbear free ice cream. Joke's on her, though, I never delivered it.

Moonbear
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
SpaceTiger said:
I offered Moonbear free ice cream. Joke's on her, though, I never delivered it.
:rofl: No, it was chocolate melt-aways, not ice cream! :grumpy: Aww, shucks, I guess we're even then since I don't know enough about physics to recommend physics advisors. :rofl:

dextercioby
Homework Helper
Or astronomy advisor in his case...:tongue2:Nevertheless,it's still a reccomandation from Moonbear.

Daniel.

SpaceTiger
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
dextercioby said:
Or astronomy advisor in his case...:tongue2:
Ever heard of "astrophysics"?

dextercioby
Homework Helper
Not lately,no...:tongue2: I've only listened to group theory in the past month,in fact.

Daniel.

Moonbear
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
SpaceTiger said:
Ever heard of "astrophysics"?
As long as we don't start calling it astrology, you're okay. :tongue2:

Evo
Mentor
SpaceTiger said:
I offered Moonbear free ice cream. Joke's on her, though, I never delivered it.
Yeah, but she didn't give you her personal biology lesson either which was part of the deal if I remember correctly.

My little sister's ex-boyfriend is an astrophysicist, he delivers pizza for a living. I guess he wasn't very good at astrophysics. :tongue:

JamesU
Gold Member
*conversation with moonbear* moonbear? want an ice cream? any flavor you like! no, no, you don't have to pay for it, just do one thing. What was it? uummm...sscciiiieenncce...aaaddvviissooorrrr??? what was it?

SpaceTiger
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Evo said:
My little sister's ex-boyfriend is an astrophysicist, he delivers pizza for a living.
We have many skills to offer the business world.

Chronos
Gold Member
Evo said:
My little sister's ex-boyfriend is an astrophysicist, he delivers pizza for a living. I guess he wasn't very good at astrophysics.
Look at the bright side. At least landed a night job.

Evo
Mentor
Chronos said:
Look at the bright side. At least landed a night job.
And another positive, he found something he's good at. His parents (both professors) aren't so thrilled. My sister supported him for 10 years, they were on her side when she finally left him. (she's a psychologist, which makes me wonder if he was more a patient than a boyfriend). :uhh:

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Moonbear
Staff Emeritus