How Do Absorption/Emission Lines Relate to Black Body Radiation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between absorption/emission lines in spectroscopy and black body radiation. Participants explore the nature of thermal radiation, the mechanisms behind absorption and emission lines, and the distinctions between these phenomena in the context of quantum states and macroscopic systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that thermal radiation (black body radiation) is independent of material properties and represents the spectrum of a radiation field at thermal equilibrium.
  • Others explain that absorption and emission lines arise from specific transitions between quantum states of atoms or molecules, with different types of transitions corresponding to different regions of the electromagnetic spectrum.
  • One participant emphasizes that black body radiation is a continuum due to the presence of numerous overlapping quantum states in macroscopic systems, while discrete absorption lines can be observed in the spectra of stars like the sun.
  • There is a contention regarding the relationship between black body radiation and massive objects, with some asserting that black body radiation is unrelated to material objects.
  • Participants discuss the nature of electronic, vibrational, and rotational transitions and their corresponding emissions of radiation, raising questions about the mechanisms behind these transitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between black body radiation and massive objects, with no consensus reached on this point. The discussion includes multiple competing perspectives on the nature of thermal radiation and its dependence on material properties.

Contextual Notes

Some statements reflect assumptions about the definitions of black body radiation and the conditions under which it applies. The discussion does not resolve the complexities surrounding the relationship between thermal radiation and material objects.

Drakkith
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I've been reading a book a Quantum Physics and I had a question. The book talks about absorption and emission lines in spectroscopy and why they happen. I was wondering if there was any relation between these and to black body radiation. Heating an object causes it to glow a certain color based on it's temperature, but I've read that different elements will emit different color light, such as the different colors in arc lamps or neon signs. What is the difference in the two?
 
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Thermal radiation (black body radiation) does not depend on any material- it is the spectrum of a radiation field at thermal equilibrium (with some temperature).

Absorption/emission lines are due to specific transitions between two quantum states of an atom/molecule. Generally speaking, electronic transitions result in visible light, vibrational transitions result in infrared, and rotational transitions are in the microwave region. Ionization is associated with x-rays.
 
May I add that the reason why black body radiation is a continuum (rather than discrete, distinguishable transitions) is that it is produced by classical, macroscopic systems containing innumerable overlapping quantum states which can't be resolved (as expected, classical macroscopic energies are not quantized in levels).

For this reason, a star such as the sun gives off mostly a black body spectrum. But since it's content in atomic gases (such as hydrogen) is so great at the surface, some discrete transitions can be identified as dents in the black body continuum.

The first graph in this link shows the sun's general blackbody emission, overlapped with discrete absorption lines ("Fraunhofer lines") from its surface gases:

http://www.newport.com/store/genContent.aspx/Introduction-to-Solar-Radiation/411919/1033
 
Dr Lots-o'watts said:
May I add that the reason why black body radiation is a continuum (rather than discrete, distinguishable transitions) is that it is produced by classical, macroscopic systems containing innumerable overlapping quantum states which can't be resolved (as expected, classical macroscopic energies are not quantized in levels).

For this reason, a star such as the sun gives off mostly a black body spectrum. But since it's content in atomic gases (such as hydrogen) is so great at the surface, some discrete transitions can be identified as dents in the black body continuum.

The first graph in this link shows the sun's general blackbody emission, overlapped with discrete absorption lines ("Fraunhofer lines") from its surface gases:

http://www.newport.com/store/genContent.aspx/Introduction-to-Solar-Radiation/411919/1033

I understand what you mean, but that's not exactly right- the absorption/emission spectrum of macroscopic bodies *in general* is given by the large number of degrees of freedom/available quantum states. Blackbody radiation, as an abstracted idealized concept, is not a function of any material object, and is in fact unrelated to massive objects.
 
Andy Resnick said:
Blackbody radiation, as an abstracted idealized concept, is not a function of any material object, and is in fact unrelated to massive objects.

It applies to something else besides massive objects?
 
Andy Resnick said:
Thermal radiation (black body radiation) does not depend on any material- it is the spectrum of a radiation field at thermal equilibrium (with some temperature).

Absorption/emission lines are due to specific transitions between two quantum states of an atom/molecule. Generally speaking, electronic transitions result in visible light, vibrational transitions result in infrared, and rotational transitions are in the microwave region. Ionization is associated with x-rays.

I've read about light being given off when electrons jump up or down states, but how do the other transitions give off radiation?
 
Dr Lots-o'watts said:
It applies to something else besides massive objects?

Blackbody radiation has nothing to do with massive objects. As I stated above, "blackbody radiation" refers to the spectral distribution of an electromagnetic field in thermal equilbrium with a reservior at some temperature T. If you like, the field is equivalent to a gas of photons at some temperature T:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_gas
 
Drakkith said:
I've read about light being given off when electrons jump up or down states, but how do the other transitions give off radiation?

Because the different states are at different energies- this is the first half-way useful link I found:

http://www.chem.ufl.edu/~itl/4411L_f00/hcl/hcl_il.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Andy Resnick said:
Because the different states are at different energies- this is the first half-way useful link I found:

http://www.chem.ufl.edu/~itl/4411L_f00/hcl/hcl_il.html

Ah, I understand a bit better now. Thanks Andy. =)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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