How do I evaluate double integral as the limit of a sum

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating a double integral as the limit of a sum, specifically in the context of a fractal region known as the Koch snowflake. Participants explore the geometric and recursive aspects of calculating the area of the snowflake as it is iteratively constructed from an initial square.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks assistance in evaluating the double integral of a snowflake region, indicating familiarity with geometric series but uncertainty in application.
  • Another participant suggests determining the number of new triangles added at each iteration and calculating their surface area to understand the total area added.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that the task is fundamentally about finding the area of a fractal, proposing to derive a recursive formula for the area of the shapes generated at each step.
  • One participant references a walkthrough for calculating the area of the classic triangular version of the Koch snowflake and notes similarities in the approach for a square with square growths.
  • Concerns are raised about potential numerical mistakes in external resources regarding the area calculation for the Koch snowflake, specifically regarding the number of triangles added in later iterations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing approaches to the problem, with some focusing on the integral evaluation while others emphasize the fractal nature of the area calculation. No consensus is reached regarding the best method or the correctness of external resources referenced.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the need for a recursive formula and the limitations of external resources, including potential numerical errors and the complexity of the formulas involved in summing geometric series.

squenshl
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How do I evaluate double integral as the limit of a sum: [tex]\int\int[/tex] 1 dA with a snowflake region constructed as follows:
Step 1: Start with a square of area 1 unit2.
Step 2: Divide each edge into 3 and construct a smaller square on the middle third, thus creating new edges.
Step 3: Repeat step 2.
I know to use a simple geometric series but not sure how to use it or work put this integral.
Please help.
 
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First try to find the answer to this: in the nth step, how many new triangles do you add. What is the length of the sides of these new triangles? Then what is their surface? What is the total surface area added in this step?
 
Ignore the integral crap. What you're doing here is simply finding the area inside a fractal.

The three steps you have been given produces the iterations of the fractal. You can think of this as a sequence {S_i} of shapes (where S_0 is a square). From this sequence, you can produce another sequence {A_i}, where A_i is the area of S_i (so A_0 = 1, since the area of a unit square is 1).

The question is to find the limit of {A_i}.

To do this, there are two steps:

Step 1) Find the formula for A_i.
Step 2) Find the limit of A_i.

Step 1 is going to be finding a recursive formula for A_i. That means something like...

A_0 = 1
A_(i+1) = A_i + (something something), for i > 0

Once you have this formula, choose a really big number n and figure out what A_n is on your calculator. This will give you an idea of what lim {A_i} is. Once you think you know the limit, try and find a proof.
 
Did you get there in the end? There's a nice walkthough here of the process of calculating the area of the classic triangular version.

http://ecademy.agnesscott.edu/~lriddle/ifs/ksnow/area.htm

Tac-Tics's step 1 is the same, in principle, for a square with square growths, it's just the numbers that are different. It's simpler for a square because the area is 1 when the side-length is 1. Step 2, in either case, is a matter of finding the sum of a geometric series [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometric_series#Sum ]. I used Wolfram Alpha to check my answer.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sum

(One quirk I've found though is that sometimes, with a complicated formula, it only gives me the infinite sum when I don't type ", for n=0 to infinity" after it!)

Another page about the Koch snowflake (the classic triangular variant of the Koch island fractal) that I came across purports to calculate the area for the case where the area of the initial triangle is 1. I think the principles are right here, but I reckon they've made a numerical mistake (it should be 48 triangles added on the third iteration) which affects their result. I get 1.6 times the area of the initial triangle.

http://library.thinkquest.org/26242/full/fm/fm16.html
 
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