How do I format equations correctly? (Curl, etc.)

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    Calculus Curl Nabla
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the correct formatting and manipulation of equations in vector calculus, particularly focusing on the use of scalars and vectors in expressions involving derivatives and cross products. Participants explore identities and the implications of scalar and vector interactions in mathematical expressions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to correctly format the expression involving the scalar \(a\) and vectors \(\mathbf{k}\), \(\mathbf{w}\), and \(\mathbf{v}\), seeking clarification on the validity of rewriting the expression.
  • Another participant argues that if \(a\) is a scalar, forming a dot product with a vector is not valid, and suggests that the expression \(\mathbf{w} \frac{\partial \mathbf{v}}{\partial z}\) does not make sense if both \(\mathbf{w}\) and \(\mathbf{v}\) are vectors.
  • A different participant emphasizes that the issue is not merely about formatting but involves using identities to rewrite expressions, recommending that participants write equations in component form to clarify operations.
  • One participant reiterates the confusion around the notation and suggests that vector notation should be replaced with tensor notation for clarity, providing definitions for tensor components.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the validity of the original expressions and the use of scalar and vector interactions. There is no consensus on the correct approach to rewriting the equations or the appropriateness of the notation used.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the context of the equations may be important, suggesting that some expressions might actually represent tensor equations rather than purely vector calculus. There is also mention of the limitations of vector notation as it becomes increasingly complex.

Brix12
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A question in advance: How do I format equations correctly?

Let's say

$$\mathbf{k}\cdot\nabla\times(a\cdot\mathbf{w}\frac{\partial\,\mathbf{v}}{\partial\,z})$$
- a is a scalar

Can I rewrite the expression such that

$$a\cdot\mathbf{k}\cdot\nabla\mathbf{w}\times(\frac{\partial\mathbf{v}}{\partial\,z})$$

In particular:
- Why is this possible? $$\nabla\times(\mathbf{w}\frac{\partial\mathbf{v}}{\partial\,z})=\nabla\mathbf{w}\times\frac{\partial\mathbf{v}}{\partial\,z}$$

Many thanks!
 
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None of what you have written makes sense. If ##a## is a scalar, you cannot form the dot product of ##a## with a vector. If ##\mathbf w## and ##\mathbf v## are vectors, then ##\mathbf w \frac{\partial \mathbf v}{\partial z}## makes no sense. Nor does ##\nabla \mathbf w##.

You can only take ##a## outside the derivative if it is constant.
 
It's not really about "formatting"... but it's about using an identity to rewrite an expression.

Given expressions like yours that are unfamiliar,
it's probably a good idea to
write things out in component-form, and carry out the operations. even though it may be tedious.
Then look for patterns to re-group terms.
Otherwise, you're just shuffling symbols with little understanding.

The context of these equations may also be good to display.

It may be that some of your vector-calculus looking expressions are actually tensor equations
 
PeroK said:
None of what you have written makes sense. If ##a## is a scalar, you cannot form the dot product of ##a## with a vector. If ##\mathbf w## and ##\mathbf v## are vectors, then ##\mathbf w \frac{\partial \mathbf v}{\partial z}## makes no sense. Nor does ##\nabla \mathbf w##.

If \mathbf{a} and \mathbf{b} are vectors, then \mathbf{a}\mathbf{b} is standard notation for the tensor with cartesian components (\mathbf{a}\mathbf{b})_{ij} = a_ib_j. This notation is introduced, for example, on pages 441ff of Boas (2nd edition). \nabla \mathbf{w} is then the tensor with components (\nabla \mathbf{w})_{ij} = \frac{\partial w_j}{\partial x_i} = \partial_i w_j.

This is about the point where vector notation should be abandoned in favour of suffices, as it becomes increasingly unclear which axes are involved in contractions.
 

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