How do irrational numbers give incommensurate potential periods?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Aubry-Andre model, specifically exploring the implications of irrational numbers on the potential periods within the model. Participants examine the concepts of incommensurate potential, the relationship between irrational values of ##\beta## and quasi-periodicity, and the use of Fibonacci numbers to mitigate boundary effects in numerical studies.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants seek clarification on what is meant by incommensurate potential in the context of the Aubry-Andre model.
  • There is a discussion on how irrational ##\beta## guarantees that the potential is quasi-periodic and incommensurate with the underlying lattice, with references to the inability to find integers that satisfy the period equations.
  • One participant proposes that the nth Fibonacci number's closed form relates to avoiding unwanted boundary effects, though this is not fully explained.
  • Another participant provides a detailed explanation of how to determine the period of the sum of two periodic functions and connects it to the incommensurability of the potential when ##\beta## is irrational.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the specifics of how Fibonacci numbers help avoid boundary effects, prompting requests for further clarification.
  • A later reply confirms that using Fibonacci numbers provides a good approximation for achieving an irrational period in practical experiments.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the implications of irrational ##\beta## leading to incommensurate potential, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the specifics of how Fibonacci numbers relate to avoiding boundary effects. The discussion does not reach a consensus on all points raised.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that numerical studies must be conducted on finite lattices with periodic boundary conditions, which can affect the incommensurability of the potential. There are also references to the challenges of achieving truly irrational periods in experimental setups.

Luqman Saleem
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I am trying to understand Aubry-Andre model. It has the following form
$$H=∑_n c^†_nc_{n+1}+H.C.+V∑_n cos(2πβn)c^†_nc_n$$
This reference (at the 3rd page) says that if ##\beta## is irrational (rational) then the period of potential is quasi-periodic incommensurate (periodic commensurate) with underlying lattice period.
Question 1: What does incommensurate potential mean here?
Question 2: How does irrational ##\beta## guarantee that potential is quasi-period incommensurate with underlying lattice?
Furthermore, this reference says that with irrational ##\beta## (they are taking the inverse of Golden Mean i.e. ##(\sqrt{5}−1)/2)## to avoid the unwanted boundary effects, we have to take the system of a size of any number from Fibonacci series.
Question 3: How does the system of a size of any Fibonacci series' number avoid unwanted boundary effects?
 
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Luqman Saleem said:
Question 1: What does incommensurate potential mean here?
Question 2: How does irrational ##\beta## guarantee that potential is quasi-period incommensurate with underlying lattice?
Two periodic phenomena are incommensurate if there is no period with which the combined phenomena can repeat.

To answer question 2, think about how you would calculate the repeating pattern of two oscillations with periods ##a## and ##b##.

Luqman Saleem said:
Question 3: How does the system of a size of any Fibonacci series' number avoid unwanted boundary effects?
I don't know about that. Can you point out more specifically where this is written?
 
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I imagine the answer to the third question has something to do with the fact that the nth Fibonacci number can be written in closed form as:
$$F_n = \frac{\varphi^n -\frac{1}{\varphi^n}}{\varphi -\frac{1}{\varphi}}$$
where $$\varphi=\frac{1+\sqrt{5}}{2}$$
the golden mean.
 
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About question 2:
If I remember correctly, to find the period of the sum of two periodic functions (with period ##a## and ##b##) we try to find integers ##n## and ##m## such that ##n a = m b = k##. If we can find ##n,m## then ##k## will be the period of the resultant. And in the case under study, the period of lattice point is ##1## and the period of potential is ##1/\beta##. If ##\beta## is irrational then there will be no integers that can satisfy the above equation, which means we will get incommensurate potential. Am I right?

DrClaude said:
I don't know about that. Can you point out more specifically where this is written?

Here is the paragraph from that article:

An important aspect of the Aubry–Andr´e model is the incommensurability of the periodic potential in above Hamiltonian, with respect to the underlying lattice that is guaranteed by the choice of β as an irrational number. Numerical studies, however, will in general have to be carried out on a finite lattice with periodic boundary conditions imposed to avoid undesirable boundary effects. In this case, the periodic potential is no longer truly incommensurate and caution has to be exercised when increasing the system size. The inverse of the golden mean is a convenient choice because the convergents of its continued fraction representation are given by ratios of successive Fibonacci numbers defined by the recursion relation ##F_{n+1} = F_n + F_{n−1}## with ##F_0 = 0## and ##F_1 = 1##. Therefore, if the system size is chosen as a Fibonacci number ##F_i##, the period β in Hamiltonian can be approximated by ##F_{i−1}/F_i##, which yields the inverse of the golden mean in the limit of large system sizes.
 
Luqman Saleem said:
If ##\beta## is irrational then there will be no integers that can satisfy the above equation, which means we will get incommensurate potential. Am I right?
Correct.

Luqman Saleem said:
Therefore, if the system size is chosen as a Fibonacci number ##F_i##, the period β in Hamiltonian can be approximated by ##F_{i−1}/F_i##, which yields the inverse of the golden mean in the limit of large system sizes.
The answer is there. Getting the period to be an irrational number is experimentally hard, so using Fibonacci numbers allows one to be guaranteed to have a good enough approximation over the size of the lattice.
 
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DrClaude said:
Correct.The answer is there. Getting the period to be an irrational number is experimentally hard, so using Fibonacci numbers allows one to be guaranteed to have a good enough approximation over the size of the lattice.
Thank you so much. I get the answer. I have also checked it by plotting the potential on MATLAB. Thanks again
 

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