How do waterflow and propellers interact?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interaction between water flow and propellers, specifically focusing on how to determine the RPM of a fixed mounted propeller when water flows through it. Participants are seeking references, calculations, and formulas relevant to the design of a propeller for water velocity measurements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, dioross, inquires about the RPM of a propeller in a water flow and requests references and calculations for designing a propeller for water velocity measurements.
  • Another participant mentions the existence of empirical charts for selecting boat propellers but questions their applicability when the water is driving the propeller, suggesting a need for rethinking the approach.
  • A suggestion is made to perform basic pitch calculations by treating the propeller like a screw thread, assuming no slippage, and ensuring that the torque is significantly higher than the friction of the shaft or sensor.
  • Further, a participant describes a method to visualize the propeller's geometry by "unwrapping" the cylinder of the blade tips onto a flat surface to find the ratio of fluid speed to blade tip speed, relating it to pitch and diameter.
  • Reference is made to the 'momentum equation' applied to fluids for calculating the force and torque exerted by the water on the propeller.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various ideas and methods for calculating propeller performance in water flow, but there is no consensus on a specific approach or formula. The discussion remains exploratory with multiple viewpoints presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that there are many parameters to consider in the calculations, and some assumptions may be necessary for the proposed methods. The applicability of empirical charts to this scenario is also questioned, indicating potential limitations in existing references.

dioross
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hi everyone!
need some help about propellers..say i have a fixed mounted propeller and a flow of water with known velocity runs through it.. what would be the rpm of the propeller??.. i know there a re lots of things and parameters to consider... i need some good references, calculations ,and basic formulas..thanks!..any help would be appreciated..

i have to design a propeller to be used in water velocity measurements... so i want to have the blade parameters which corresponds to the design RPM of the propeller..

Regards,

dioross
 
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There's all these empirical charts for selecting boat propellers. Here's one I scanned once, can't remember where from.

Tho I wonder if maybe none of that applies when the water's driving the propeller. It would certainly need some rethinking.

I guess you could also do some basic pitch calculations assuming no slippage by treating it like a screw thread. Actually that might be a good approximation since you're not actually transferring power to/from the water. Just make sure the torque is way higher than the friction of the shaft/sensor.

[PLAIN]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21857463/bpdeltalarge.GIF
 
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thank for the reply..
Do you have some ideas about basic calculations?..:)
 
dioross said:
thank for the reply..
Do you have some ideas about basic calculations?..:)

Yea just imagine it's a screw turning through a block of butter. You can work out the geometry easily if you 'unwrap' the cylinder of the blade tips (or some other point) onto a flat surface, then you find the blade tips trace out a triangle. So it's just the ratio of side lengths that gives you the ratio of fluid speed to blade tip speed. I think that's also the ratio of pitch to diameter.

For the force (and thus torque) applied by the water, look up the 'momentum equation' applied to fluids.
 

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