How do we know everything in the universe is made of atoms?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether everything in the universe is made of atoms, exploring the implications of the Big Bang, the Copernican principle, and the nature of matter and energy in the universe. Participants examine theoretical and empirical perspectives, as well as the definitions and classifications of matter.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that while everything on Earth and likely in the solar system is made of atoms, it is uncertain if this holds true for the entire universe.
  • Others propose that the Copernican principle suggests that physics is consistent throughout the universe, although this assumption may not hold in all scenarios, such as in regions with different fundamental constants.
  • A participant emphasizes the importance of empirical evidence, noting that similar chemical reactions observed in distant parts of the universe support the idea that the same laws of physics apply universally.
  • Some argue that the universe contains more than just atoms and molecules, including non-atomic particles and forms of matter such as plasma and neutron matter.
  • There is a contention regarding the definition of matter, with some participants stating that not all matter is atomic, citing examples like plasma in stars and the composition of neutron stars.
  • Participants discuss the role of subatomic particles, with one suggesting that the original question should focus on elementary particles within the Standard Model of particle physics.
  • Concerns are raised about the premise of the original question, with some stating that the majority of the universe is thought to consist of dark energy and dark matter, which complicates the assertion that everything is made of atoms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the composition of the universe, with no consensus reached on whether everything is made of atoms or if other forms of matter exist. The discussion remains unresolved with differing interpretations of what constitutes matter.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on assumptions about the uniformity of physical laws across the universe, while others highlight the complexity of defining matter and the existence of non-atomic forms. The discussion also touches on the implications of dark energy and dark matter, which are not fully resolved.

TehEpicness
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We know everything on Earth is made up of atoms and molecules, and most likely everything in the solar system, but how do we know everything in the universe uses them, and not something else? The Big Bang would cause things to have similarities, but different parts of the universe could still be very different.
 
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The answer has to do with the Copernican principle. Basically, we make the assumption that we are in a fairly typical, normal part of the universe, and any other random place looks more or less the same. (Obviously this isn't strictly true -- we're confined to this nice Earth with water and habitability for carbon based life forms, but from an elementary physics point of view, it seems like a rather reasonable assumption). So on one level, we are simply assuming that the physics which works here is the same physics which works elsewhere. If this were not the case, physics would somehow be a local phenomenon, which simply seems wrong.

(Caveat: You can have scenarios in which the fundamental constants are different in different parts of the universe. For example, in an inflationary cosmos where small parts of a pre-existing universe undergo periods of rapid expansion to effectively become separate universes, the values for the various fundamental constants which control the shape and fate of our universe may be different. The key point here is that the LAWS themselves remain the same)

On a more empirical level, though, we can explain a lot of what we see out in the universe with the known laws of physics. We see the same chemical reactions taking place billions of light years away which take place here on the Earth -- which gives us good confirmation that the above mentioned hypothesis is indeed correct.
 
Nabeshin,
EXCELLENT answer. And I am not referring to you with this comment. But as science has always been my passion, the one scar on the profession IMO is the fact that when theories are developed. They are fact. Until one rolls along that makes more sense.
That is not how facts are learned or developed. (and I am not talking about all scientists or research. I just think that before we say something like "dark energy" is expanding the universe, we need to have proof of the "dark energy" first.
I will get on a soapbox if I continue, so I will stop. lol.
 
chadthree6ty said:
...the one scar on the profession IMO is the fact that when theories are developed. They are fact.
No they're not. They're theories.

The strength with which they are accepted is proportional to
a] the amount of previous research that is also pointing in this direction,
b] the amount of evidence that supports it,
c] how well they explain the evidence compared to competing theories.

What you may be seeing is that, often, one theory is dramatically better at the above than others. It is the front-runner for the most part unless another theory can explain the evidence better.

But that doesn't make it fact. It simply means that, if you're going to insist on touting a competing theory, it had better darn well be better than the best one so far.
 
Universe contains much more than atoms or molecules.
There are particles which are not part of atoms. Also universe refers to space, time, matter, energy, and everything that exists.

The fact that different parts of the universe are similar is supported by observation and by Inflation and Big Bang theories. These are the theories trying to explain how the universe was born.
 
It is not true that everything in Solar system is build of atoms, even if you restrict to a "matter" in common meaning of that word. Actually, vast majority of Solar system mass comes from an non-atomic matter. Solar core is built of plasma of protons, small nuclei and electrons.
Actually no (large enough) astrophysical objects are build of atoms. Most stars are made of plasma, neutron stars are made of neutron matter.
 
Let us assume that the OP is also asking about subatomic particles as well, as they are what comprise atoms.

TechEpicness, everywhere we look in the Universe and everywhere we have gone seem to work exactly the same. Stars far away from Earth have nearly identical measurable properties that our own Sun does and we can observe some of them here in a laboratory. One example is the emission spectrum from a star. These are dim lines that appear whenever we send the stars light through a prism like object and are the result of atoms or molecules existing in the stars outer layers and absorbing certain wavelengths of light. These lines directly correspond to identical lines we see when we send white light through ordinary gases in the lab.

It is this and many other observations that tell us that the universe is made up of the same things that we are here on Earth.
 
TehEpicness said:
We know everything on Earth is made up of atoms and molecules, and most likely everything in the solar system, but how do we know everything in the universe uses them, and not something else? The Big Bang would cause things to have similarities, but different parts of the universe could still be very different.

Actually, this is wrong.

Electrons are not made up of "atoms". Protons are not made up of atoms. Mesons are not made up of atoms. Light is not made up of atoms.

I will rephrase your question in the hope that you might want to look up these things a little bit more as part of your education. What you probably meant to ask was "How do we know everything in the universe is made up of elementary particles within the Standard Model of particle physics?"

Now that may be a bit more complicated for you to understand, but it is a good excuse to first of all figure out why your original question is different than my version, and why it makes a whole lot of difference.

Zz.
 
  • #10
ZapperZ said:
What you probably meant to ask was "How do we know everything in the universe is made up of elementary particles within the Standard Model of particle physics?"

Sorry, that's what I meant.
 
  • #11
The present universe is made up of electrons, protons, neutrons, photons and neutrinos.
The protons and neutrons form nuclei, free neutrons decay. Electrons and nuclei combine into atoms if their temperature is low enough.
 
  • #12
theon said:
The present universe is made up of electrons, protons, neutrons, photons and neutrinos.
The protons and neutrons form nuclei, free neutrons decay. Electrons and nuclei combine into atoms if their temperature is low enough.

True, but Neutrons and Protons themselves are composed of Quarks.
 
  • #13
The vast majority of the universe is currently thought to be made up of Dark Energy (Einstein showed us that matter and energy are tied together) & Dark Matter. The vast minority of the make-up is matter & antimatter. So it would seem the OP's question is built on false premises.
 
  • #14
twistedspark said:
The vast majority of the universe is currently thought to be made up of Dark Energy (Einstein showed us that matter and energy are tied together) & Dark Matter. The vast minority of the make-up is matter & antimatter. So it would seem the OP's question is built on false premises.

Perhaps, but as far as we know dark energy is exactly the same here as it is 13 billion light years from Earth. And I think we can give the OP a break, as dark energy is not matter and doesn't form objects.
 

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