How do we know space is not infinite?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether space is infinite or finite, exploring concepts related to the observable universe, cosmic microwave background radiation, and the implications of infinity in the context of cosmology. Participants engage in a mix of theoretical and conceptual reasoning, examining the nature of space, expansion, and the limits of human understanding regarding the universe's size.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that space is expanding, with galaxies moving in space while also moving apart due to this expansion.
  • Others emphasize that the observable universe is finite, limited by the distance light has traveled since the big bang, which occurred about 14 billion years ago.
  • There is a discussion about the cosmic microwave background radiation (CMB) and its relevance to the question of infinity, with some asserting it does not provide evidence for or against an infinite universe.
  • Participants explore the concept of infinity, questioning whether something that is already infinite can expand and what that means in terms of physical space.
  • Some suggest that the universe may not fit neatly into categories of finite or infinite, proposing the possibility of a paradigm shift in understanding the universe's nature.
  • There are references to mathematical concepts, such as Hilbert's Hotel, to illustrate the complexities of infinity and its implications for understanding the universe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus on whether space is finite or infinite. Some agree on the finite nature of the observable universe, while others propose that the unobservable universe may be infinite. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of infinity and the nature of space.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of infinity and the observable universe, as well as unresolved questions about the implications of space expansion and the nature of cosmic measurements.

  • #121
Blueyes5804 said:
I think of space as a landscape. an environment. different from our own, but a landscape still. self renewing.

by the way. do you know what neighborhood we live in in the universe? are we close to the core? on the edge? somewhere in the suburbs? Do you know if that's been figured out?

There is no edge, no center, no suburbs to the best of our knowledge.
 
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  • #122
Thank You. so you're saying there is no "map" of the universe, and because of that, no galactic gps for us. ty. just wondering.
 
  • #123
Blueyes5804 said:
Thank You. so you're saying there is no "map" of the universe, and because of that, no galactic gps for us. ty. just wondering.

There is a map of the OBSERVABLE universe and it even has a center (WE are the center by definition) but that doesn't tell us about the rest of universe, just our little bitty part of it.

You said "no galactic gps". I assume you meant "no universe gps". Our galaxy is a staggeringly trivial part of the universe and we have a fair bit of knowledge of where things are in our galaxy (the Milky Way).
 
  • #124
Blueyes5804 said:
I would like to know where, in the universe, are we. the milky way I mean. are we in the middle, in the suburbs, out on the farm? where exactly? any ideas?

Here is a nice picture of where we are: http://n-a-s-a.tumblr.com/post/13461282020/are-there-any-data-and-visualizations-that-graphically

Outer suburbs, close to the farms.

Skippy
 
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  • #125
just went to the NASA link. O M G! ty
 
  • #126
How typical that we would think we are the center of the universe! reminds me of when we thought the sun revolved around the earth! lol ty for all the feedback. I find it really interesting!
 
  • #127
Blueyes5804 said:
How typical that we would think we are the center of the universe! reminds me of when we thought the sun revolved around the earth! lol ty for all the feedback. I find it really interesting!

We don't think we are at the center of the Universe. But we KNOW we are at the center of the OBSERVABLE Universe. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe

In Big Bang cosmology, the observable universe consists of the galaxies and other matter that we can in principle observe from Earth in the present day, because light (or other signals) from those objects has had time to reach us since the beginning of the cosmological expansion. Assuming the universe is isotropic, the distance to the edge of the observable universe is roughly the same in every direction—that is, the observable universe is a spherical volume (a ball) centered on the observer, regardless of the shape of the universe as a whole. Every location in the universe has its own observable universe which may or may not overlap with the one centered on the Earth.
 

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