How do you construct proofs for set unions?

  • Thread starter Thread starter fruitjunkie
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Proof Union
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around constructing proofs for set unions, specifically focusing on the logical expression involving elements belonging to sets a and b. The original poster seeks assistance with proving a statement related to set theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants inquire about the original poster's understanding of proof construction and the axioms they are familiar with. There is a discussion about the validity of the expression presented and the need for clarification on the variables used.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants expressing concern about the original poster's grasp of proof techniques. Some guidance has been offered regarding the foundational axioms in set theory, but there is no consensus on how to proceed with the proof itself.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of a deadline for the proof and the original poster's uncertainty about their knowledge of constructing proofs. The discussion also highlights the importance of understanding the basic axioms and operations related to sets.

fruitjunkie
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
union proof due at midnight!

(∃y)(∀x)(x ∈ y) ↔ (x ∈ a ∨ x ∈ b))
How do you prove this??
 
Physics news on Phys.org


In ZF, that is an axiom. But I think you don't really mean that. So could you elaborate??
 


it is a lemma that my professor asked us to prove.
 


So, what did you try already??
 


i actually don't know how to construct proofs..
 


i don't get it. the letters a and b seem to be unbound variables, hence meaningless. so there is no statement here. what gives??
 


oops, i forgot the beginning: Given sets a and b, there is a set containing exactly the elements from a and b:
 


It's well past midnight but that is just as well. If you honestly do not "how to construct proofs" your professor needs to know that so he/she can teach you. If you get someone else to do the problem for you, the professor might think you already know how and not discover the mistake until an exam!

In any case, I doubt that anyone here could give a proof that you would understand without knowing what basics info you have about sets. As micromass said, in ZF, that's an axiom. What "axioms" or operations do you have to work with?
 


HallsofIvy said:
It's well past midnight but that is just as well. If you honestly do not "how to construct proofs" your professor needs to know that so he/she can teach you. If you get someone else to do the problem for you, the professor might think you already know how and not discover the mistake until an exam!

In any case, I doubt that anyone here could give a proof that you would understand without knowing what basics info you have about sets. As micromass said, in ZF, that's an axiom. What "axioms" or operations do you have to work with?

The "union axiom" can be derived from the sum axiom and the pairing axiom, as well the proper definitions attached to both of these.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
18
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
3K