How Do You Derive Green's Function Using Vector Calculus?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving Green's function using vector calculus, specifically focusing on the relationship between Green's theorem and vector fields. Participants explore mathematical expressions and seek clarification on specific steps in the derivation process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an equation involving Green's function and seeks assistance in deriving a specific form of the integral, expressing uncertainty about reaching the desired equation.
  • Another participant notes that Green's theorem and Green's function are distinct concepts, providing links for clarification.
  • A participant mentions the availability of proofs for Green's theorem in various calculus books and online resources, but expresses a desire to derive it using vector calculus without graphical representation.
  • Further clarification is sought regarding a specific formula involving vector fields and line integrals, with a focus on verifying the transformation of expressions related to Green's theorem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the distinction between Green's theorem and Green's function, but there is no consensus on the derivation steps or the specific mathematical expressions involved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about terminology and the derivation process, indicating potential limitations in their understanding of the mathematical steps involved.

yungman
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The normal form of Green's function is ##\oint_c\vec F\cdot \hat n dl'=\oint_{s}\left(\frac{\partial M}{\partial x}-\frac{\partial N}{\partial y}\right)dxdy##

I want to get to
\oint _cMdy-Ndx=\oint_{s}\left(\frac{\partial M}{\partial x}-\frac{\partial N}{\partial y}\right)dxdy

Let ##\vec F=\hat x M(x,y)+\hat y N(x,y)##
Let a rectangle area A with corners: ##(x,y),\;(x+\Delta x,y),\;(x+\Delta x,y+\Delta y),\;(x,y+\Delta y)##

\oint_c\vec F\cdot \hat n dl'=\int_{right}\vec F\cdot \hat x dy+\int_{left}\vec F\cdot(- \hat x) dy+\int_{top}\vec F\cdot \hat y dx+\int_{bottom}\vec F\cdot(- \hat y) dx
=\int_c M(x+\Delta x,y) dy-\int_c M(x,y) dy+\int_c N(x,y+\Delta y) dx- \int_c N(x,y)dx\;=\;\oint_{s}\left(\frac{\partial M}{\partial x}-\frac{\partial N}{\partial y}\right)dxdy

I can't get ##\oint _c Mdy-Ndx##

Please help

Thanks
 
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LCKurtz said:
Most calculus books have a proof of Green's theorem for regions as general as oval shapes. Also on the internet there are proofs. One is here:

http://www.math.mcgill.ca/jakobson/courses/ma265/green.pdf

I know there are tons of proofs using graph of type I and type II regions. But I want to proof without using graph and just by vector calculus. I have a question on Page 4 of the link you provided, the formula on the top of page 4:

\int_c\vec F\cdot(\hat T\times\hat k)ds=\int_c (\hat k \times \vec F)\cdot \hat T ds

I want to verify how to get
\int_c (\hat k \times \vec F)\cdot \hat T ds=\int-Qdy+Pdx
\vec s=\hat x x +\hat y y\Rightarrow\;d\vec s=\hat x dx +\hat y dy=\hat T ds
\hat k\times \vec F=-\hat x Q+\hat y P\;\Rightarrow\; (\hat k \times \vec F)\cdot \hat T ds=-Qdx+Pdy
\Rightarrow \;\int_c (\hat k \times \vec F)\cdot \hat T ds=\int_c -Qdx+Pdy

Thanks
 
Last edited:

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