How Do You Determine the Direction for a Specific Directional Derivative Value?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the directions in which the directional derivative of the function f(x,y) = x^2 + xy^3 at the point (2,1) equals 2. Participants explore different approaches to express the directional derivative and the implications of using unit vectors versus arbitrary vectors.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the gradient vector at (2,1) as <5,6> and sets up the equation for the directional derivative as 5a + 6b = 2.
  • Another participant suggests using a unit vector representation, u = , to simplify the directional derivative equation to 5cos(θ) + 6sin(θ) = 2.
  • There is a question raised about the rationale for using cosine and sine in this context, with a participant affirming that it helps to define the direction in terms of an angle with the x-axis.
  • A later reply discusses the infinite number of vectors that can satisfy the equation 5a + 6b = 2 and emphasizes the need for an additional condition, such as unit length, to find a specific direction.
  • Another participant provides an example of imposing a condition on the x-component of the vector, leading to a specific vector solution of <-2, 2> that also satisfies the directional derivative requirement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the best approach to represent the directional vector, with some favoring unit vectors and others preferring arbitrary vectors. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the optimal method for determining the direction of the directional derivative.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on the choice of vector representation and the implications of imposing additional conditions on the variables involved in the directional derivative equation.

Joe20
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Find the directions in which the directional derivative of f(x,y) = x^2+ xy^3 at the point (2,1) has the value of 2.

What I have done so far which I am not sure how to continue:

partial derivative of fx = 2x + y^3 and fy = 3xy^2

gradient vector, <fx,fy> at (2,1) = <5,6>

Let u = <a,b>

Directional derivative at (2,1) = gradient vector at (2,1) . u => <5,6> . <a, b> = 5a+6b = 2

Hope someone can advise. Thanks.
 
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Alexis87 said:
Find the directions in which the directional derivative of f(x,y) = x^2+ xy^3 at the point (2,1) has the value of 2.

What I have done so far which I am not sure how to continue:

partial derivative of fx = 2x + y^3 and fy = 3xy^2

gradient vector, <fx,fy> at (2,1) = <5,6>

Let u = <a,b>

Directional derivative at (2,1) = gradient vector at (2,1) . u => <5,6> . <a, b> = 5a+6b = 2

Hope someone can advise. Thanks.
Instead of taking $\mathbf{u} = \langle a,b\rangle$, it might be better to take $\mathbf{u} = \langle \cos\theta,\sin\theta\rangle$, so that $\mathbf{u}$ is a unit vector making an angle $\theta$ with the $x$-axis. The equation then becomes $5\cos\theta + 6\sin\theta = 2.$ Do you know how to solve that sort of trigonometric equation?
 
Opalg said:
Instead of taking $\mathbf{u} = \langle a,b\rangle$, it might be better to take $\mathbf{u} = \langle \cos\theta,\sin\theta\rangle$, so that $\mathbf{u}$ is a unit vector making an angle $\theta$ with the $x$-axis. The equation then becomes $5\cos\theta + 6\sin\theta = 2.$ Do you know how to solve that sort of trigonometric equation?
May I ask why are we using cosine teta and sine teta? Yes , using R-formulae to solve for the teta.
 
Alexis87 said:
May I ask why are we using cosine teta and sine teta? Yes , using R-formulae to solve for the teta.
Opalg told you that: u is a unit vector making an angle θ with the x-axis. The problem asked for the direction and giving that angle is a good way to designate the x- direction.

The only difficulty with your method is that there are an infinite number of vectors pointing in a given direction, all with different lengths. When you took such a vector to be <a, b> you arrived at the equation 5a+ 6b= 2, a single equation in two variables. Given different values for a, b, satisfying that equation you get different vectors, of different lengths, all pointing in the same direction. If you want a single vector as answer, you have to impose some other condition. If you require that the vector be of unit length, that a^2+ b^2= 1, then you will have two equations in a and b and will get opalg's answer. But you could also simply require that a, the x-component of the vector be equal to -2 and have the equation 5(-2)+ 6b= -10+ 6b= 2 and have 6b= 10= 2= 12 so b= 2. The vector <-2, 2> is a vector in the correct direction.
 

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