How do you find the diameter of certain atoms?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around methods for determining the diameter of atoms, specifically using copper and lead as examples. Participants explore various approaches, mathematical steps, and the implications of atomic structure and environmental factors on atomic size.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines a step-by-step method for calculating the diameter of a copper atom but expresses uncertainty about the math and how it applies to other elements like lead.
  • Another participant suggests using x-ray diffraction to determine atomic sizes through crystal lattice measurements.
  • A different approach is proposed, involving calculating the volume per mole and converting it to volume per atom, followed by solving for radius using the volume of a sphere.
  • Concerns are raised about the variability of atomic size depending on the crystal structure and allotropes of elements, particularly in the case of lead, which has varying isotopic abundances affecting density.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a single method for determining atomic diameter, with multiple competing views and approaches presented. There is also disagreement regarding the implications of crystal structure and isotopic variations on atomic size.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in defining atomic size due to varying chemical environments and the complexity of crystal structures. The mathematical steps involved in the proposed methods are not fully resolved, and assumptions about density and atomic spacing are not universally applicable.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and researchers in chemistry and materials science, particularly those exploring atomic structure, crystallography, and methods of measuring atomic dimensions.

thename1000
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I only have one example that I can find, and that's finding the diameter of a copper atom. Do most elements follow these steps?

1.) Make sure density is in kg/m^3
2.) find number of copper atoms in a 1 meter by 1 meter cube.
3.) find number of atoms in one edge(row?) of said cube.
4.) find diameter of one atom in that edge.

I understand this assuming its correct. What I don't understand is the math, and how it will differ with different elements.

So can we do an example of say, lead? one mole of it has a mass of 207.2g and a density of 11.4 g/cm^3.? How do you do each step and WHY?

Assume I know nothing besides what I've said lol
 
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BUMP.

Nobody knows how to do this? Help if you can :)
 
At one time, diffraction of x-rays of known wavelength were Bragg-diffracted off of simple crystals to determine the separation of crystal planes, thus determining the size of the crystal lattice and the volume occupied by single atoms.
Bob S
 
That's a roundabout way of doing it.

1. Calculate volume per mole as molar mass / density.
2. Divide by N_A and convert units to something small, like nm or Angstroms to get volume per atom.
3. Plug into volume for a sphere and solve for radius.

The procedure is not different for different elements. Keep in mind that the size of an atom is not something that can be well defined; the same kind of atom will be different sizes in different chemical environments.
 
Finding the number of atoms in a single row on an edge of some elements is very dependent on the crystal structure of the element, and the specific allotrope. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allotropes_of_carbon
Graphite for example is a staggered hexagonal structure. Is the atomic spacing the same on all edges? Does the spacing change depending on allotrope (compare diamond and graphite)? Is the atomic diameter depend on whether the spacing is cubic (same dimension in x, y, z) or rectangular (like in graphite)? This cannot be done with a meter stick and a scale. Lead is an unusual element in that the isotopic abundance varies depending on where it is mined. So if all isotopes have different densities, does this mean that the atomic sizes are different?
Bob S
 

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