How Do You Prove (det A)aij = Cij(A) for an Orthogonal Matrix with det(A)=+1?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the relationship (det A)aij = Cij(A) for an orthogonal matrix A with det(A)=+1. Participants explore the properties of orthogonal matrices, the definition of determinants and cofactors, and the implications of these properties in the context of the proof. The discussion includes technical reasoning and mathematical expressions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that if det(A)=+1, it indicates a rotation, while det(A)=-1 is associated with reflections, but questions what det(A)=-1 most often indicates.
  • Another participant suggests that the superfluous factor of (-1)^(i+j) in the determinant summation should be removed, indicating that indexed elements outside the summation should use different indices.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between an orthogonal matrix and its inverse, specifically that A^-1 = A^T, and how this relates to the proof being attempted.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about using the inverse relationship as it has not been covered in their text, but acknowledges its relevance to the proof.
  • One participant confirms that for an orthogonal matrix, the relationship A^-1 = A^T leads to the conclusion that the elements of the inverse matrix correspond to the transposed elements of the original matrix.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the properties of orthogonal matrices and the definitions involved, but there is no consensus on the specific proof approach or the treatment of certain mathematical elements. The discussion remains exploratory with multiple viewpoints presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the treatment of indexed elements in summations and the implications of definitions related to cofactors and determinants. There are references to definitions and properties that may not have been fully covered in their texts, which could limit their understanding.

ognik
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Hi, the question (from math methods for physicists) is: If A is orthogonal and det(A)=+1, show that (det A)aij = Cij(A).

I know that if det(A)=+1, then we are looking at a rotation.
(Side question - I have seen that det(A) =-1 can be a reflection, but is 'mostly not reflections'; what does det(A)=-1 most often indicate then? A link to something simple that covers this would be nice :-) - I couldn't find anything)

But my main issue is to prove the above. I want to do this using indexing, so I tried:
By defn: det A = $ \sum_{}^{}{a}_{ij}({-1})^{i+j}{C}_{ij}(A) $
Then (det A)aij = $ {a}_{ij} \sum_{}^{}{a}_{ij}({-1}^{i+j}){C}_{ij}(A) $ ...

What struck me immediately is I don't know how to treat what happens when an indexed element is outside the summation? I am reasonably sure that aij is a single element here, so I can't include it in the summation. I can almost see an argument that by multiplying by the aijth element, I am 'selecting' only that element's cofactor out of the summation - but that seems too flimsy to me, would appreciate a better understanding.

Another side question is that I have the definition of a cofactor as: $ {C}_{ij}(A)=({-1})^{i+j}{M}_{ij}(A) $ Where {M}_{ij} is the minor...
It seems to me that $ ({-1})^{i+j} $ shouldn't be in both $ \sum_{}^{}{a}_{ij}({-1})^{i+j}{C}_{ij}(A) $ AND $ {C}_{ij}(A)=({-1})^{i+j}{M}_{ij}(A) $ ?

Thanks
 
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ognik said:
Hi, the question (from math methods for physicists) is: If A is orthogonal and det(A)=+1, show that (det A)aij = Cij(A).

I know that if det(A)=+1, then we are looking at a rotation.
(Side question - I have seen that det(A) =-1 can be a reflection, but is 'mostly not reflections'; what does det(A)=-1 most often indicate then? A link to something simple that covers this would be nice :-) - I couldn't find anything)

But my main issue is to prove the above. I want to do this using indexing, so I tried:
By defn: det A = $ \sum_{}^{}{a}_{ij}({-1})^{i+j}{C}_{ij}(A) $
Then (det A)aij = $ {a}_{ij} \sum_{}^{}{a}_{ij}({-1}^{i+j}){C}_{ij}(A) $ ...

What struck me immediately is I don't know how to treat what happens when an indexed element is outside the summation? I am reasonably sure that aij is a single element here, so I can't include it in the summation. I can almost see an argument that by multiplying by the aijth element, I am 'selecting' only that element's cofactor out of the summation - but that seems too flimsy to me, would appreciate a better understanding.

Another side question is that I have the definition of a cofactor as: $ {C}_{ij}(A)=({-1})^{i+j}{M}_{ij}(A) $ Where {M}_{ij} is the minor...
It seems to me that $ ({-1})^{i+j} $ shouldn't be in both $ \sum_{}^{}{a}_{ij}({-1})^{i+j}{C}_{ij}(A) $ AND $ {C}_{ij}(A)=({-1})^{i+j}{M}_{ij}(A) $ ?

Thanks

Hi ognik!

It seems to me we shouldn't worry much which summation applies to find $\det A$.
That's because we already know that $\det A = 1$.

Anyway, to answer your side questions first.
You are quite right that you have a superfluous $({-1})^{i+j}$ in your summation for $\det A$.
And if you have an indexed element outside of the summation, it should use different indices.

So it should be:
$$(\det A)a_{ij} = {a}_{ij} \sum_{k,l}^{}{a}_{kl}(-1)^{k+l}{M}_{kl}(A) = {a}_{ij} \sum_{k,l}^{}{a}_{kl}{C}_{kl}(A)$$To get back to your problem, perhaps you can use that an orthogonal matrix has the property that $A^{-1}=A^T$.
And that an inverse is given by $A^{-1}=\frac{1}{\det A}\big(C(A)\big)^T$.
 
Hi and thanks. I wasn't sure I could use that inverse relationship as it hasn't been covered in the text yet, but I can't see any other way. Having said that, i think I need some more understanding as you will see:
$$ If\: A^-1 =\frac{1}{\left| A \right|}.{C}^{T}\;then\:\left| A \right|\left({A}^{-1}\right)={C}^{T} $$
$$ Then \:\left| A \right|\left({A}^{-1}\right)_{ij} ={C}^{T}_{ij}\:\:but\:{C}^{T}_{ij}={C}_{ji}$$
So for what I am trying to prove, somehow $$\left({A}^{-1}\right)_{ij}\:must\:=A_{ji} $$
but I don't know why that would be true?
 
..sorry, of course I do! For an orthog matrix
$$ {A}^{-1}={A}^{T} \therefore ({A}^{-1})_{ij}={A}^{T}_{ij}={A}_{ji} $$
Thanks for your help (BTW, how do I add a thanks?)
 
Good! :)

Every post has a thanks button at the bottom right.
 
I also found that after I posted, one of those days ...
Would appreciate it if you had a look at http://mathhelpboards.com/advanced-applied-mathematics-16/confirm-equation-numerov-method-14831.html ... thanks again :-)
 

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