How Do You Solve These Complex Logarithmic and Polynomial Equations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a system of logarithmic equations and a polynomial equation involving complex roots. Participants explore methods for manipulating the equations, factoring, and identifying roots, while expressing uncertainty and confusion about the processes involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a system of logarithmic equations and attempts to manipulate them into polynomial forms, leading to a cubic equation.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the original system of equations, noting the absence of equals signs.
  • Some participants propose that the cubic equation can be factored, suggesting that it has a real solution at x=1.
  • Discussion about the polynomial p(x) includes identifying complex roots and the implication that complex conjugates must also be roots.
  • Participants express confusion about the factoring process and the transition from one form of the equation to another, with some seeking clarification on the distributive property used in factoring.
  • There is a suggestion that multiple complex roots may exist, but the exact nature and count of these roots remain unclear among participants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the interpretation of the logarithmic equations and the correctness of the derived polynomial forms. There is no consensus on the methods for solving the equations or the identification of roots, leading to ongoing confusion and debate.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the steps taken in their calculations, including the validity of their factorizations and the assumptions made about the roots of the polynomial. The discussion highlights the complexity of transitioning between different forms of equations and the challenges in solving them accurately.

Darken1
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First Question:
Solve the following system of equations
log{x+1}y=2
log{y+1}x=1/4


Work:
Turned them into equations
(x+1)^2=y (y+1)^(1/4)=x

Substituted second equation into the first equation
((y+1)^(1/4)+1)^2=y

factored out and eventually got
((y+1)^1/4)^2+2((y+1)^1/4)+1=y
Tried to use quadratic formula (a=1,b=2,c=1) and got y=-1. -1=-1 Didn't seem relevant.

Tried to factor it out by substituting x = (y+1)^1/4
(x+1)(x+1)=x^4-1 x^4-1=(x^2+1)(x^2-1)=(x^2+1)(x+1)(x-1)
(x+1)(x+1)=(x^2+1)(x+1)(x-1)
(x+1)=(x^2+1)(x-1)
(x+1)=(x^2+1)(x-1)
-(x+1) = -(x+1)
0=(x^2+1)(x-1)-(x+1)
x^3-x^2-2=0
Couldn't factor it out.

Also noticed
(x+1)(x+1)=y
x=-1,y=0
Second Question:
Consider the polynomial p(x)=x^4+ax^3+bx^2+cx+d, where a,b,c,d are real numbers.

Given that 1+i and 1-2i are zeroes of p(x), find the values of a,b,c,d.

Work:
x=1+i and x=1-2i are zeroes
(x-1-i)(x-1+2i)=0
Factored it out
x^2-2x+ix+3
Seems to be missing another factor to get to the original equation.
Perhaps I could divide the original equation by the equation I factored out to get the last factor?
No idea at all

Edit: I need sleep geez...
 
Last edited:
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Darken said:
First Question:
Solve the following system of equations
log{x+1}_{2} log{y+1}_{¼}
I don't understand the problem here, because the "system of equations" has no equals signs and therefore doesn't consist of equations.

Darken said:
Eventually
0=x^3-x^2+x-1
Couldn't factor it out.
However, if you are correct in getting to the equation $0 = x^3 - x^2 + x - 1$ then you can solve it by writing it as $0 = x^2(x-1) + x-1 = (x^2+1)(x-1).$ That has just one real solution $x=1$.

Darken said:
Second Question:
Consider the polynomial p(x)=x^4+ax^3+bx^2+cx+d, where a,b,c,d are real numbers.

Given that 1+i and 1-2i are zeroes of p(x), find the values of a,b,c,d.

Work:
x=1+i and x=1-2i are zeroes
(x-1-i)(x-1+2i)=0
Factored it out
x^2-2x+ix+3
Seems to be missing another factor to get to the original equation.
Perhaps I could divide the original equation by the equation I factored out to get the last factor?
No idea at all
Hint: If a polynomial with real coefficients has a complex zero $u+iv$, then the complex conjugate $u-iv$ is also a zero of the polynomial.
 
Opalg said:
I don't understand the problem here, because the "system of equations" has no equals signs and therefore doesn't consist of equations.

However, if you are correct in getting to the equation $0 = x^3 - x^2 + x - 1$ then you can solve it by writing it as $0 = x^2(x-1) + x-1 = (x^2+1)(x-1).$ That has just one real solution $x=1$.Hint: If a polynomial with real coefficients has a complex zero $u+iv$, then the complex conjugate $u-iv$ is also a zero of the polynomial.

My bad, fixed the problem.My equation was wrong.
So from the previous equation
(x+1)=(x^2+1)(x-1)
I just factored out right hand side and minused (x+1) from both sides to get x^3 - x^2 + x - 1-(x+1)=0.
Supposed to have been
x^3-x^2-2=0
Don't know how to factor this one out.
Side Note: How did you convert x^2(x−1)+x−1 into (x^2+1)(x−1)? Is there an equation for it?

Hm so I guess that means
x=1+i and x=1-2i
x=1-i and x=1+2i
are all zeroes? Think I can go from there.
 
Last edited:
Darken said:
My bad, fixed the problem.My equation was wrong.
So from the previous equation
(x+1)=(x^2+1)(x-1)
I just factored out right hand side and minused (x+1) from both sides to get x^3 - x^2 + x - 1-(x+1)=0.
Apparently you multiplied rather than "factored". There was no point in that - the standard method for solving such equations is to factor so if the expression is already factored, leave it that way!

Supposed to have been
x^3-x^2-2=0
Don't know how to factor this one out.
It had already been factored for you!

Side Note: How did you convert x^2(x−1)+x−1 into (x^2+1)(x−1)? Is there an equation for it?
The "distributive rule": ab+ ac= a(b+ c). Here, the "a" is x-1: x^2(x- 1)+ 1(x- 1)= (x^2+ 1)(x- 1).
Hm so I guess that means
x=1+i and x=1-2i
x=1-i and x=1+2i
are all zeroes? Think I can go from there.
No, if (x^2+ 1)(x- 1)= 0 then x^2+ 1= 0 or x- 1= 0. The first of those is the same as x^2= -1 which has roots i and -i. x- 1= 0 only for x= 1. The three roots of the cubic equation are i, -i, and 1. I have no idea where you got "1+i", "1- 2i", "1- i" and "1+ 2i".
 

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