How does a Penning trap determine the upper limit of the electron radius?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on how a Penning trap is utilized to determine the upper limit of the electron radius, exploring the implications of measurements related to the electron's g-factor and its relationship to quantum electrodynamics (QED). The conversation includes theoretical aspects, experimental methods, and the significance of findings in the context of fundamental physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the specific mechanisms by which a Penning trap can measure the electron radius, referencing the relationship between the g-factor and the fine structure constant.
  • Others mention that the electron is considered a fundamental particle with no known substructure, thus treated as a point charge with an upper limit on its radius of 10−22 meters, as inferred from observations in a Penning trap.
  • A participant highlights that the classical electron radius is 2.8179 × 10−15 m, contrasting it with the upper limit derived from quantum measurements.
  • Some contributions discuss the continuous Stern-Gerlach effect as a method for monitoring the quantum states of the electron in the trap, leading to precise measurements of the g-factors for electrons and positrons.
  • There are mentions of the anomalous magnetic moments of electrons and muons, suggesting that further exploration could reveal contributions from non-Standard Model particles.
  • A participant describes the Penning trap as a geonium atom, emphasizing its ability to confine a single charged particle and the precision with which its properties can be measured.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the implications of the measurements and the theoretical underpinnings of the electron's properties. There is no consensus on the interpretations or the significance of the findings, indicating that multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of fundamental particles and the unresolved nature of certain theoretical aspects related to the measurements. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of the implications of the g-factor measurements.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying quantum mechanics, particle physics, and experimental techniques in measuring fundamental constants and properties of elementary particles.

granpa
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how is a penning trap used to determine the upper limit of the electron radius. google hasnt been much help.

I found this but I don't understand it at all.

http://cerncourier.com/cws/article/cern/29724

What can be learned from the more accurate electron g? The first result beyond g itself is the fine structure constant, α = e2/4πε0hbarc – the fundamental measure of the strength of the electromagnetic interaction, and also a crucial ingredient in our system of fundamental constants. A Dirac point particle has g = 2. QED predicts that vacuum fluctuations and polarization slightly increase this value.

The third use of the measured g is in probing the internal structure of the electron – limiting the electron to constituents with a mass m* > m/√(δg/2) = 130 GeV/c2, corresponding to an electron radius R <1 × 10–18 m. If this test was limited only by our experimental uncertainty in g, then we could set a limit m* > 600 GeV. This is not as stringent as the related limit set by LEP, which probes for a contact interaction at 10.3 TeV. However, the limit is obtained quite differently, and is somewhat remarkable for an experiment carried out at 100 mK.
 
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Wikipedia cites the abstract in reference 2.
Wikipedia said:
The electron is described as a fundamental or elementary particle. It has no known substructure.[2][64] Hence, it is defined or assumed to be a point charge with no spatial extent—a point particle.[10] Observation of a single electron in a Penning trap shows the upper limit of the particle's radius is 10−22 meters.[65] The classical electron radius is 2.8179 × 10−15 m. This is the radius that is inferred from the electron's electric charge, by assuming that its mass energy has exclusively electrostatic origin and using the classical theory of electrodynamics alone ignoring quantum mechanics.

QED Penning trap upper limit for the electron particle radius:
[tex]r_e \leq 10^{-22} \; \text{m}[/tex]

reference 2 said:
The quantum numbers of the geonium "atom", an electron in a Penning trap, have been continuously monitored in a non-destructive way by the new "continuous" Stern-Gerlach effect. In this way the g-factors of electron and positron have been determined to unprecedented precision:

[tex]\frac{1}{2} g = \frac{v_s}{v_c} = 1.001 159 652 188(4)[/tex]

Wikipedia said:
In quantum mechanics, the Stern–Gerlach experiment[1], named after Otto Stern and Walther Gerlach, is an important 1922 experiment on the deflection of particles, often used to illustrate basic principles of quantum mechanics. It can be used to demonstrate that electrons and atoms have intrinsically quantum properties, and how measurement in quantum mechanics affects the system being measured.
[/Color]
Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penning_trap"
http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/1402-4896/1988/T22/016/"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern%E2%80%93Gerlach_experiment"
 
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thank you

http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/1402-4896/1988/T22/016/

The classical notion of an atomic particle at rest in free space is discussed, and shown to be approximable by zero-point confinement of the particle in a laboratory trap. An important tool for cooling the particle, and in the case of an electron, for obtaining directly the difference of spin and cyclotron frequencies vs, vc, is side band excitation. The quantum numbers of the geonium "atom", an electron in a Penning trap, have been continuously monitored in a non-destructive way by the new "continuous" Stern-Gerlach effect. In this way the g-factors of electron and positron have been determined to unprecedented precision,

½g ≡ vs/vc ≡ 1.001 159 652 188(4),

providing the most severe tests of QED and of the CPT symmetry theorem, for charged elementary particles. From the close agreement of experimental and theoretical g-values a new, 10^4 × smaller, value for the electron radius, Rg < 10^-20 cm, may be extracted.[/color]
 
learning more about the anomalous magnetic moments of electrons, and muons, can lead one to find corrections and contributions from non-Standard Model particles/interactions.

See for instance g-2 experiment home page:
http://www.g-2.bnl.gov/

If you want more information:
http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2006/09/20/muon-g-2-and-supersymmetry/
http://arxiv.org/abs/0801.4905

Similar measurements on rare decays such as pi0-> e+e- can reveal if there is contribution from non-SM particles/interactions.
 
Geonium atom...


Wikipedia said:
A single charged particle can be trapped indefinitely in a Penning trap. Penning trap is a combination of a homogeneous magnetic field and an electrostatic quadrupole potential. A small cloud of charged particles in such a trap is like a many electron atom, with the difference that the role of the atomic nucleus is played by an adjustable external field in the trap. Such a system is called a "geonium atom" [1], since the binding is to an external apparatus residing on the Earth.

In the simplest case, the system consists of only one electron or only one ion in the trap. This is analogous to the hydrogen atom. The properties of this single bound particle can be measured and calculated with a very high precision.
[/Color]
Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geonium_atom"
 
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