How Does Binding Energy Affect the Mass of Nucleons?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between binding energy and the mass of nucleons within a nucleus, specifically using a helium nucleus as an example. Participants explore the implications of energy input when separating nucleons and how this affects their mass compared to when they are bound in a nucleus.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that separating nucleons requires work against the strong force, implying that this work contributes to the mass of the individual nucleons.
  • Another participant questions the direction of energy dissipation, indicating a potential misunderstanding of energy conservation in this context.
  • A participant asserts that energy used to separate nucleons is not dissipated but is recoverable, emphasizing the principle of energy conservation.
  • One participant proposes that the energy input during separation adds to the mass of the individual nucleons, suggesting a connection between energy and mass.
  • In contrast, another participant argues that the masses of individual nucleons do not depend on their state of being bound or unbound, stating that the mass of a system of nucleons does not equal the sum of the masses of the individual nucleons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the energy input during nucleon separation affects the mass of the individual nucleons. There is no consensus, as some assert a connection while others refute it.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of energy conservation and binding energy without resolving the nuances of how these concepts relate to the mass of nucleons. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of energy dynamics in nuclear physics.

Jas
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So we have a nucleus. Let's say its a helium nucleus.

If I want to split this nucleus into its constituent nucleons, I must do work against the strong force which is holding it together. Now that I have done the work, the particles are no longer bound. I have done work against the strong force; where on Earth does the extra energy/mass come from which results in the constituent nucleons being heavier than the nucleus? The energy that was put into the system to separate the nucleons was dissipated in doing work against the force?
 
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Jas said:
The energy that was put into the system to separate the nucleons was dissipated in doing work against the force?
Which way are you going? Up? Or, down hill?
 
Jas said:
The energy that was put into the system to separate the nucleons was dissipated in doing work against the force?
Energy isn't dissipated. The energy is fully recoverable by binding them back together. Energy is conserved.
 
Khashishi said:
Energy isn't dissipated. The energy is fully recoverable by binding them back together. Energy is conserved.
So could you say that:

the energy that was put into seperating the nucleons actually adds to the mass of the individual nucleons, which is the reason as to why they are heavier as constituents?
 
Yes.
 
Jas said:
So could you say that:

the energy that was put into seperating the nucleons actually adds to the mass of the individual nucleons, which is the reason as to why they are heavier as constituents?
No, the masses of the individual nucleons do not depend on whether they are part of a bound nucleus or not.

The energy that goes into separating the nucleons increases the mass of the system of nucleons. The mass of a system of particles generally does not equal the sum of the masses of the individual particles.
 

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