How Does Choosing Ball Subsets Affect Their Weight Growth in an Algorithm?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of determining how the choice of subsets of balls affects their weight growth in a specified algorithm. Participants explore the implications of different strategies for selecting subsets, the mathematical underpinnings of weight growth, and the complexity of the algorithm involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario with n balls of weight 1/n and discusses how the opponent's choice of subsets affects the weights, suggesting that after O(n log(n)) iterations, all balls will exceed weight one.
  • Another participant questions the interpretation of O(n log(n)) in terms of practical iterations, asking if fractional turns are permissible and providing examples with n=6 to illustrate their point.
  • A different approach is proposed, where the opponent selects subsets of balls in a specific order to maximize weight growth, suggesting that this could lead to each element being multiplied by 2 after n iterations.
  • Clarification is sought regarding the definition of |S| in the weight multiplication formula, with a participant confirming it refers to the total weight of selected balls.
  • Some participants assert they have found solutions to the problem, with one stating that the potential function should be the product of weights rather than their sum.
  • Another participant claims the maximum number of game iterations is 2*n-2, suggesting a complexity of O(n).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of O(n log(n)) and the implications of various strategies for selecting subsets. Some participants claim to have found solutions, while others continue to explore the problem, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are assumptions regarding the definitions of terms like |S| and the implications of Big O notation that are not fully clarified. The discussion also involves varying interpretations of the algorithm's complexity and the strategies for subset selection.

OfirD
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there are n balls of weight 1/n.
an opponent choose each time a subset of balls that each one has weight less than 1. then each ball in this set, its weight is multiplied by 1+\frac{1}{|S|} where S is the set of balls that the opponent chose.
I need to show that for each choice of subsets, after O(n log(n)), all the balls have weights greater than one.

this is easy to show for example, if the subsets are always of size 1, or of size n. also there is no real importance to the order of the choices of the subsets, because eventually this is just multiplication of the weight values, and so this is commutative.
I tried to show this by defining the function \phi which is the average of the weights, and see how it is increased in each iteration, but didn't get very far.

another way I thought of is to show, that if I order the sets so that each time I choose the set that the average of its elements is the smallest, then after n iterations, each elements is multiplied by 2. this is true for the choices of always n balls, and of always 1 ball.
 
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OfirD said:
there are n balls of weight 1/n.
an opponent choose each time a subset of balls that each one has weight less than 1. then each ball in this set, its weight is multiplied by 1+\frac{1}{|S|} where S is the set of balls that the opponent chose.
I need to show that for each choice of subsets, after O(n log(n)), all the balls have weights greater than one.

Let’s take n=6 for example. Am I allowed to make O(n log(n)) = 4.66 turns in the game? Should I round it up to 4 or 5?

OfirD said:
this is easy to show for example, if the subsets are always of size 1, or of size n.

Again, let’s take n=6 for example.
If the subsets are always of size 1, game will have 6 iterations
If the subsets are always of size n, game will have 5 iterations
Both numbers are larger than 4.66, what is, as far as I understand, the predicted number of turns.

Big O notation assumes n approaches infinity and any coefficients should be omitted. Is it the case in your problem? I will assume this is the case; otherwise problem description does not make too much cense.

Let’s look at the following strategy.
Step 1. Opponent chooses balls 1 and 2.
Step 2. Balls 3 and 4.
Step 3. Balls 5 and 6.
Etcetera: two balls per step, until they run out.
Then, opponent starts over and chooses balls 1,2,3,… again – one ball at a time.

Please see this spreadsheet for demonstration of this algorithm for n=8.

http://ganymed.ca/temp/Upper_bound_problm_8.xls

As you can see, the number of steps is 12. The run time of this algorithm is O(1.5 * n), what is equal to O(n). So, your upper boundary looks correct.

I will have to think about your problem.

By the way, in my chart, yellow fields are for user input; white fields are calculated. Field B1 is for number n. Chart of yellow fields should be filled of 1’s and blanks. 1 will indicate ball is selected in this step. White numbers below are the weights of the balls. Each column corresponds to one ball; row corresponds to one iteration.
 
I assume |S| in your formula is total weight of selected balls, not the count of selected balls, correct?
 
Thanks, but I already found a solution. the potential function should be the multiplication of the weights and not their sum.
any way, the big O notation means that there is a constant C and and a natural number N, such that for all n>N , C n log(n) is an upper bound
 
OfirD said:
Thanks, but I already found a solution.

Me too.
Maximum number of game iterations is 2*n-2, correct?
So, complexity is O(n).
 

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