The discussion revolves around the effects of the curvature density parameter, Ωk, on the overall density parameter of the universe, Ωuniverse, particularly in the context of whether a negative value for Ωk can influence the sign of Ωuniverse. Participants explore the definitions and implications of these parameters within cosmological models.
Participants express differing interpretations of how the curvature density parameter interacts with the overall density parameter, leading to unresolved questions about the implications of negative values and the definitions involved.
There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the definitions of the density parameters and their implications for curvature, which remain unresolved in the discussion.
In addition to what was explained by Orodruin, it is worth clarifying that the "curvature density parameter" ##\Omega_k## is, by definition, equal to 1-(##\Omega_M##+##\Omega_\Lambda##+##\Omega_R##), so its value is not restricted to being 0, 1 or -1. In fact, with that definition, a negative value of ##\Omega_k## implies a positive curvature of the universe.Ranku said:How does negative signage of a constituent density parameter, such as that of curvature index Ωk, which can be 0,1,-1 affect the signage of Ωuniverse?
Put another way, each of the ##\Omega## parameters is normalized so that the total adds up to 1. Saying that the sum of the ##\Omega## parameters is 1 is equivalent to saying that all of the components have to add up to 100% of the total.Orodruin said:If you include ##\Omega_k## in the sum of Omegas you get 1 by definition. Regardless of the curvature.
It seems to me that this interpretation is not entirely correct because it would imply that, for example, a positive curvature contributes negatively to the density parameter, while dark energy, mass and radiation, added together, contribute more than 100% of the total.ohwilleke said:Saying that the sum of the ##\Omega## parameters is 1 is equivalent to saying that all of the components have to add up to 100% of the total.
Negative percentages are common in quantum mechanics. Why not cosmology too?Jaime Rudas said:It seems to me that this interpretation is not entirely correct because it would imply that, for example, a positive curvature contributes negatively to the density parameter, while dark energy, mass and radiation, added together, contribute more than 100% of the total.
Yes, that's correct. The "density parameter" is not the same thing as actual density. It is just another way of organizing the math.Jaime Rudas said:it would imply that, for example, a positive curvature contributes negatively to the density parameter
"Negative percentages" is only a workable description of things that occur in QM if you adopt an interpretation of that term that has no counterpart in a classical theory. So this response is not a valid one.ohwilleke said:Negative percentages are common in quantum mechanics. Why not cosmology too?
The "curvature density parameter" ##\Omega_k## is more of an indicator of how far from flatness a space is, than a true indicator of density.PeterDonis said:Yes, that's correct. The "density parameter" is not the same thing as actual density. It is just another way of organizing the math.
Yes.Jaime Rudas said:The "curvature density parameter" ##\Omega_k## is more of an indicator of how far from flatness a space is, than a true indicator of density.