How Does Gravity Affect Light in Black Holes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on how gravity affects light, particularly in the context of black holes. Participants explore the relationship between gravity, mass, energy, and momentum, and how these concepts apply to the behavior of light in extreme gravitational fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that black holes have such strong gravitational pull that not even light can escape, raising questions about how gravity affects massless electromagnetic radiation.
  • Others propose that gravity interacts with light through energy and momentum, suggesting that light follows geodesics in curved spacetime.
  • A participant questions the idea that momentum can exist without mass, arguing that photons, which carry light, must have mass to possess momentum.
  • Another participant clarifies that photons have zero rest mass but can still have momentum due to their relativistic nature, challenging the classical mechanics equation p=mv.
  • There is a discussion about the equation p=h/λ, with participants confirming its meaning in the context of photon momentum.
  • One participant introduces the concept of photons having energy equivalence to mass and discusses the process of photon conversion to mass, noting that this process is not instantaneous and relates to refraction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of momentum and mass in relation to photons, with some asserting that photons must have mass to have momentum, while others clarify that they do not. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these differing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of mass and momentum, as well as the application of classical mechanics to relativistic particles. Some assumptions about the nature of photons and their interactions with gravity are also left unexamined.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying astrophysics, general relativity, or the properties of light and electromagnetic radiation in extreme gravitational environments.

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As i know them, black holes are dead remains of stars where the gravitational pull is so great that not even light can escape.

Well, but light(electromagnetic radiation, in general) has no mass, then how does gravity effect light?
 
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Gravity does not interact only due to mass, but also due to energy and momentum, both of which electromagnetic radiation has.

Another was to look at it is that gravity is a curvature of space, and that light follows geodesics in that space. At the black hole, the curvature of space is so great that all geodesics lead back to the black hole.
 
Janus said:
Gravity does not interact only due to mass, but also due to energy and momentum, both of which electromagnetic radiation has.

Another was to look at it is that gravity is a curvature of space, and that light follows geodesics in that space. At the black hole, the curvature of space is so great that all geodesics lead back to the black hole.

ok, thanks.
 
Janus said:
Gravity does not interact only due to mass, but also due to energy and momentum, both of which electromagnetic radiation has.

First let me say that I'm not an astrophysicist, and that I like being corrected if my picture of this is wrong. But anyway, although light and all forms of energy have no mass, the photon packets which carry light do have a tiny amount of mass. The statement that gravity reacts to momentum as well as mass is a strange thing to say, because momentum is = mass*velocity. If something has momentum, it must have mass, otherwise the p = mv equation would be p = 0*v and momentum would equal zero.

So, gravity can affect light because light travels in the form of photons. Is my perception of this accurate?
 
zketrouble said:
First let me say that I'm not an astrophysicist, and that I like being corrected if my picture of this is wrong. But anyway, although light and all forms of energy have no mass, the photon packets which carry light do have a tiny amount of mass. The statement that gravity reacts to momentum as well as mass is a strange thing to say, because momentum is = mass*velocity. If something has momentum, it must have mass, otherwise the p = mv equation would be p = 0*v and momentum would equal zero.

So, gravity can affect light because light travels in the form of photons. Is my perception of this accurate?

No. The photons have identically zero rest mass. The reason they can still have momentum is because photons are relativistic particles -- that is, the equations of classical mechanics, p=mv, do not apply to them. Specifically, we have:
p=\frac{h}{\lambda}
 
Janus said:
Gravity does not interact only due to mass, but also due to energy and momentum, both of which electromagnetic radiation has.

Another was to look at it is that gravity is a curvature of space, and that light follows geodesics in that space. At the black hole, the curvature of space is so great that all geodesics lead back to the black hole.

Nabeshin said:
No. The photons have identically zero rest mass. The reason they can still have momentum is because photons are relativistic particles -- that is, the equations of classical mechanics, p=mv, do not apply to them. Specifically, we have:
p=\frac{h}{\lambda}

in the p=h/lambda expression you mentioned, this translates to:
Momentum = Planck's Constant/wavelength, or does the h stand for something else?
Thanks.
 
zketrouble said:
in the p=h/lambda expression you mentioned, this translates to:
Momentum = Planck's Constant/wavelength, or does the h stand for something else?
Thanks.

Correct.
 
A photon has the energy equivalance of mass and can be converted to mass, if captured. Photons, however, seem to resist this process. They are usually replaced by another photon [i.e., electron capture]. This process is, however, not instantaneous and commonly referred to as refraction. We still have much to learn.
 

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