How Does pH Influence Acid Dissociation According to Le Chatelier's Principle?

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    Acid Dissociation
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the influence of pH on the dissociation of weak acids, specifically HCN, in the context of Le Chatelier's principle. Participants explore the relationship between pH levels and acid dissociation, raising questions about the implications of higher pH on the dissociation process.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculated pH values for different concentrations of HCN and expressed confusion about the relationship between pH and acid dissociation.
  • Another participant suggested writing out the dissociation equation for HCN and applying Le Chatelier's principle to understand the behavior of the acid in solution.
  • A participant noted that HCN in water results in a pH less than 7 and provided the dissociation equation along with the acid dissociation constant (Ka).
  • It was proposed that the ratio of [A^-]/[HA] increases with pH, which some participants agreed with.
  • Questions were raised about the implications of higher pH leading to greater dissociation of the acid, despite higher [H+] at lower pH levels.
  • One participant pointed out that high [H+] could come from external sources, such as adding HCl, which would shift the dissociation equilibrium to the left.
  • Another participant questioned whether the trend of higher pH correlating with increased acid dissociation is always true and sought clarification through Le Chatelier's principle.
  • A participant provided a general explanation of how changes in pH affect the direction of the dissociation equilibrium, suggesting that decreasing pH shifts the reaction left and increasing pH shifts it right.
  • There was a suggestion that participants should clarify their understanding of terms like "dissociation" and "dissolving," as they are distinct concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants expressed varying views on the relationship between pH and acid dissociation, with some agreeing on the general principles while others raised questions and sought further clarification. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the consistency of the observed trends across different scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Participants noted potential confusion between the concepts of dissociation and solubility, highlighting that the behavior of weak acids in solution can depend on various factors, including the presence of other acids or salts.

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Homework Statement
Calculate the pH for 1M HCN dissolved in water, and for 0.1M HCN dissolved in water. Is the acid most dissociated at high or at low pH?
Relevant Equations
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So I calculated the pH for the two concentrations: pH=4.61 for the high concentration and pH=5.61 for the low concentration.

Regarding the dissociation: in the solution manual it is given that the acid is most dissociated at the higher pH than the lower pH, which to me seems strange intuitively! any good explanation of this?
 
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Write out the equation for the dissociation of HCN then consider Le Chatelier's principle.
 
Second question seems a bit unclear. Simple response, pH less than 7 if HCN is found dissolved in water, and no other salts added.

HCN + H2O⇔H3O+ + CN-

Ka is 4.9*10^-10 .

For the 1 M HCN part of the problem,
x, H+1 molarity(approximate) as well as CN-1 molarity
1-x, HCN molarity(x^2)/(1-x)=4.9*10-10Try to work with that.

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EDIT: small edit for subscript
 
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I suppose what the statement refers to is the fact that ratio \frac{[A^-]}{[HA]} goes up with pH.
 
Yeah, that's correct @Borek. So we basically get more of the products at higher pH? I just find it weird how the acid is most dissociated at a HIGHER pH, when the concentration of [H+] will be higher at the lowest pH?
 
High concentration of H+ doesn't have to come from the dissociation of the acid in question, imagine putting HCN in a solution of HCl - low pH, and HCN dissociation shifted way to the left (even more than usually, it is a very weak acid).
 
Is it always like that? The higher the pH, the more of an acid will be dissolved? How can this be seen in light of Le Chatelier's principle? (as pointed out by @Yggdrasil)
 
Anyone..?
 
Kqwert said:
Is it always like that? The higher the pH, the more of an acid will be dissolved? How can this be seen in light of Le Chatelier's principle? (as pointed out by @Yggdrasil)
Try writing out the chemical equation for the dissociation of a weak acid and applying Le Chatelier's principle to see what happens as you increase or decrease the pH.
 
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  • #10
Ok, so if we have the following reaction:

HA <--> H+ + A-

Then if we decrease the pH - concentration of [H+] will increase, reaction will be shifted towards the left => less products.

If we increase the pH - concentration of [H+] will decrease, reaction will be shifted towards the right => less reactants.

Is this the correct way of explaining it?
 
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  • #11
Yes, or that seems to be the correct use of the concept.
 
  • #12
Kqwert said:
Is it always like that? The higher the pH, the more of an acid will be dissolved? How can this be seen in light of Le Chatelier's principle? (as pointed out by @Yggdrasil)
Kqwert said:
Anyone..?

You ask for answers but you also need to give some. E.g. the answers to #3 and what are your results you claim in #1 and how did you get them?

In your question you seem to be confusing "disassociation" with "dissolving". Two different things, each with a clear meaning (but you wouldn't be the first).

Confusingly maybe there is for, as it were secondary reasons a connection. Many acids are less soluble than the corresponding salts. Because ionised i.e. charged species interact with water better than the corresponding uncharged one. More than once I have seen a beginner or a technician think they are going to dissolve some organic or other acid and then bring it to pH to make a buffer. They tip the acid ( powder or crystals) into a beaker with water and leave it stirring. After an hour or a day they say " it won't dissolve!". They need to start adding alkali for that to happen and to get a buffer of the concentration required!
 
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