How does the chargeless photon carry the electromagnetic force?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter ctmiller
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Bosons Photon
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of the photon, specifically its lack of charge and how it can still mediate the electromagnetic force. Participants explore theoretical and conceptual aspects of this topic, touching on gauge theory, quantum mechanics, and classical electromagnetic waves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about how a chargeless photon can carry the electromagnetic force.
  • One participant explains that the photon field couples to fermions through minimal coupling, requiring the introduction of a gauge potential to maintain U(1) gauge invariance.
  • Another participant emphasizes that while the photon is considered massless and chargeless, this does not rule out the possibility of it having non-zero values below observable limits.
  • A participant discusses the gauge principle, stating that the photon mediates interactions without carrying charge, as it connects phase differences in wave functions.
  • It is noted that the photon does not distinguish between positive and negative charges, and the nature of attraction or repulsion arises from the quantum interference of exchanged photons.
  • One participant suggests revisiting classical concepts of electromagnetic waves, mentioning that accelerating charges produce these waves.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the fundamental question of how a chargeless photon can mediate electromagnetic force, with various perspectives and explanations presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the complexity of the gauge principle and the quantum mechanical nature of photons, which may not be fully addressed in the discussion.

ctmiller
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
There is something very fundamental I am missing here. The photon is said to be chargeless. If that is the case, how does it carry the electromagnetic force? Thank you.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
ctmiller said:
There is something very fundamental I am missing here. The photon is said to be chargeless. If that is the case, how does it carry the electromagnetic force? Thank you.
The photon field(gauge potential [tex]A_\mu[/tex]) couples to the fermions, say, electron described by Dirac field, through the minimal coupling.
That is, in order to have the U(1) gauge invariant, we need to replace the partial derivative with a covariant derivative, by doing this we need also introduce one so-called gauge potential. Expanding the covariant derivative, you would see the interaction term of gauge potential and Dirac fields.
BTW, if you consider the case of scalar QED, only when the scalar field is complex, the coupling of gauge potential and scalar fields is non-vanishing.
 
Hi, and welcome to PF :smile:

This is either a very technical, or long question. It does not appear to me possible to render justice to it, because it is a good question, in a short simple answer.

First, an experimentalist disclaimer : when we say that the photon has no mass, or no charge, we do not mean to say that it can not have in principle, we refer to the fact that any such quantity must be less than observable limits. Current standard model imposes zero charge and mass, experimental limits may be stringent, but there is always infinite room in between any finite limit and zero.

Second, an unfair answer would be "why should it have a charge !?". In fact, physically we do not want the photon to have charge or mass, precisely because of the overwhelming experimental limits. Although we do not have a satisfactory final theory for this fact, charges appear quantized in unit of the electron charge (lest the quarks which do not appear free). We would not like the electron to loose a tiny bit of its charge by emitting a single photon. When we bounce around an electron radiating electromagnetic waves, we think that the wave is carrying away information about the bouncing, but only information, no charge. I am going to be provocative here : basketball players exchange a ball but the ball itself does not wear basketball shoes.

Third, the photon field can be derived from a very important principle for the standard model of particle physics, namely the gauge principle. The gauge principle more or less says the following : the wave function, as a complex number, has an arbitrary phase. Only phase differences between two wave functions are physical. That means, we can choose the origin of the phases as we please. If we like to monkey around, we can choose this phase reference at every single point in space-time. But that affects the derivative of the wave-function ! Therefore, we need to compensate for our monkeying around the phases by introducing a modified derivative, which connects neighboring space-time points to correct the phase references. This connections is the photon field. In this case, we take the phase to simply be one real angle parameterizing the complex unit circle U(1). We could choose more elaborate phases, coming from more complicated symmetry groups than U(1) and we would end up with other interactions (and that is precisely what the gauge principle does to generate interactions from symmetry principle in the standard model). There are just two ways to wrap around the circle, clockwise and counterclockwise, and this is why there are just positive and negative electric charges. There is no more freedom than that. That means that the photon, which must generate this symmetry, can do it without carrying any non-trivial charge. There is no positive or negative photon because there is just one way to go along a circle, back and forth along only one direction. Another way to say it (I know it has gotten too technical already) is that the Lie algebra of U(1) considered as a Lie group is a trivial algebra with only one element.

All right, I tried to address as I could cover "why the photon has no charge ?", but I have not addressed "how can it mediate the EM force ?". I'll cheat completely here
Some Frequently Asked Questions About Virtual Particles ([URL='https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/author/john-baez/']John Baez's Stuff)[/url]
The bottom line is : the photon is a quantum object, and if you want to investigate force mediation in photon terms, you must go through the quantum language. The photon has no clue whether it has been emitted by a positive or a negative electric charge particle. Attraction/repulsion is decided by the interference between odd and even (including zero) number of photons exchanged.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
5K
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K