How does the quantum of action cause indeterminism?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the quantum of action, specifically Planck's constant, and the concept of indeterminism in quantum mechanics. Participants explore whether and how Planck's constant contributes to non-deterministic outcomes in quantum systems.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the assertion that Planck's constant causes indeterminism, asking for evidence or references to support this claim.
  • One participant argues that indeterminism arises from the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics, contrasting it with classical mechanics where outcomes can be calculated deterministically.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the original post's framing and suggests that further clarification is needed before engaging deeply with the topic.
  • A participant acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding a reference and admits to not finding credible sources to support the claim about Planck's constant and indeterminism.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the relationship between Planck's constant and indeterminism. Multiple competing views are presented, with some participants challenging the premise of the discussion.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the role of Planck's constant in causing indeterminism, as well as the need for clear definitions and references to support claims made in the discussion.

pholmes
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How and/or why does the existence of the quantum of action (Planck's constant) cause indeterminism?
 
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pholmes said:
How and/or why does the existence of the quantum of action (Planck's constant) cause indeterminism?
Who said it did?
 
pholmes said:
How and/or why does the existence of the quantum of action (Planck's constant) cause indeterminism?
It doesn't.
Non-determinism appears in quantum mechanics because the standard mathematical formulation of the theory doesn't calculate "what happens" the way that for example Newton's three laws allow us to calculate what happens to an object subject to various forces. Instead the laws of quantum mechanics calculate the probability of various outcomes, but which one we actually get is random.

A good layman-friendly introduction to the theory is Giancarlo Ghirardi's book "Sneaking a look at God's cards"; better but more mathematically demanding would be a college-level textbook or even Ballentine's "Quantum Mechanics: A modern approach".
 
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Sadly, the OP likes starting threads in a controversial fashion, and then not participate. I would suggest we hold off on putting a lot of effort into this until he clarifies Peter's point.
 
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@pholmes my post #2 was a request for a reference. If you cannot provide a reference that makes the claim you are asking about in your OP, then we don't have a valid basis for discussion.
 
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I apologize. I found the reference where I thought it said that, and it doesn't really say that. I searched at length and failed to find any other reputable site on the internet that said that. This is only the 2nd thread I have started. I'll keep the quality up in the future.
 
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pholmes said:
I found the reference where I thought it said that, and it doesn't really say that. I searched at length and failed to find any other reputable site on the internet that said that.
Ok. In view of that, this thread is closed.
 
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