How does the universe end? Show the final equation.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of how the universe may end, exploring various theoretical states and equations related to thermodynamics, particularly entropy and free energy. Participants express uncertainty about the question's implications and seek clarification on what constitutes "the end of the universe."

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the question's intent and what state signifies the universe's end.
  • Another suggests that the limiting value of energy or entropy per unit volume as time approaches infinity may be relevant.
  • A participant proposes "heat death" as a potential outcome, linking it to increasing entropy and the eventual lack of free energy.
  • Another participant references the second law of thermodynamics, stating that the entropy of the universe must increase.
  • One participant speculates that the end state may involve zero free energy, indicating a lack of usable energy for work.
  • Philosophical musings are presented, suggesting a relationship between nothingness and the infinite, questioning how this could be expressed mathematically.
  • A participant humorously mentions a potential end of the universe due to an experiment at CERN, adding a layer of uncertainty to the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various interpretations of the question and potential outcomes, indicating that multiple competing views remain without a consensus on a definitive answer.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of defining the "end of the universe" and the implications of thermodynamic principles, highlighting the need for further exploration of these concepts.

phyzmatix
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Homework Statement



You are now familiar with the relationship between enthalpy, entropy, free energy and work. How does the universe end? Show the final equation.

Homework Equations



The only thing I can think of that might be relevant is

\Delta G^{\circ}= \Delta H^{\circ} \ - \ T \Delta S^{\circ}

The Attempt at a Solution



I don't really know where to start. My problem lies in the fact that I'm not sure exactly what the question entails.

What state would signify "the end of the universe" to be exact?

Any ideas?

Thanks!
phyz
 
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Does the lack of response mean everybody else is also stumped?

:cry:
 
… quick! … just got time! …

phyzmatix said:
I don't really know where to start. My problem lies in the fact that I'm not sure exactly what the question entails.

What state would signify "the end of the universe" to be exact?

Any ideas?
phyzmatix said:
Does the lack of response mean everybody else is also stumped?

:cry:

Hi phyzmatix! :smile:

Well, if the universe is ending, we can't be bothered to answer! :wink:

:smile: but maybe it isn't … so … :smile:

I'll guess they're asking for the limiting value, as time tends to infinity, of energy (or entropy or …) per unit volume. :smile:

… got to go … ! :smile:
 
I suspect the question is asking about "heat death". Since the entropy is always increasing, your equation says that, eventually, there will be no free energy- all motion will be randomize, the temperature will be constant throughout the universe and so no work can be done.
 
I would go with the second law of thermodynamics as the equation describing the end of the universe:

\Delta S_{universe} \geq 0
 
My initial thought was that it must be a state of zero free energy and it seems like you tend towards the same conclusion. Since the equation I quoted above isn't necessarily a MUST use, I'll play around with the ideas you've given me and sit on it a while longer. See what I can reference from my textbooks.

Thanks everyone for your input :smile:

(PS Tiny-Tim, if the universe comes to an end any time soon, I'll be PISSED! :smile:)
 
phyzmatix said:
(PS Tiny-Tim, if the universe comes to an end any time soon, I'll be PISSED! :smile:)

:biggrin: I'll get the beers in! :biggrin:
 
tiny-tim said:
:biggrin: I'll get the beers in! :biggrin:

:smile::smile::smile:
 
"From nothing
it came;
to nothing,
shall it return".


I thought everyone knew that. Scientists may one day be surprised how close the relationship is between the nothing and the infinite. IMHO.
 
  • #10
nothing …

King Lear said:
Nothing shall come of nothing.

There's no such thing as a free quark! :wink:
 
  • #11
PhanthomJay said:
"From nothing
it came;
to nothing,
shall it return".


I thought everyone knew that. Scientists may one day be surprised how close the relationship is between the nothing and the infinite. IMHO.

How would you put that into an equation format involving the above-mentioned concepts of entropy, enthalpy etc?

:wink:
 
  • #12
I would not have answered this question any other day, but by coincidence according to some people the universe could end today due to an experiment due to happen at CERN Geneva. I cannot be sure therefore that you will see this. 24 h from now to be sure the universe has not ended check if there is a CERN press release confirming it, as that sort of thing is not widely reported in the ordinary papers because it does not sell copies.
 

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