How does wind affect an airplane's deceleration?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of wind on an airplane's deceleration, focusing on the forces involved and the relationship between airspeed and ground speed. Participants explore the kinematics and dynamics of an aircraft encountering a head wind, considering both theoretical and practical implications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses interest in calculating the wind effect based on the force exerted by wind on the aircraft surfaces, referencing a specific drag equation.
  • Another participant questions the context and conditions under which the initial deceleration claim is made, highlighting the need for clarity in the program used for calculations.
  • A participant reformulates their question to clarify that an airplane cruising at 100 m/s entering a 10 m/s head wind would have its speed reduced to 90 m/s, seeking a force-based explanation.
  • One reply explains that the airplane must adjust its ground speed to maintain aerodynamic equilibrium, leading to a decrease in ground speed due to the head wind.
  • A participant emphasizes that the wind acts as an additional drag force on the airplane, seeking a way to express this in force vector terms.
  • Another participant notes that the deceleration from entering a head wind is temporary and describes the dynamics of the airplane adjusting to maintain its relative airspeed.
  • One participant discusses the complexity of real-world interactions, suggesting that a 10% increase in speed could lead to a 21% increase in drag, while also noting that maintaining altitude complicates this relationship.
  • Another participant clarifies that maintaining altitude would require adjustments to the lift coefficient, affecting induced drag and potentially leading to varying outcomes in total drag.
  • A participant highlights that at cruising speeds, parasitic drag is dominant and that engine thrust may be affected when encountering a head wind.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the terms "attitude" versus "altitude," indicating a focus on simplifying the case being discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the effects of wind on deceleration, with some agreeing on the need for adjustments in lift and drag while others emphasize different aspects of the dynamics involved. The discussion remains unresolved with various hypotheses and models presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of real-world scenarios, including the interplay of lift, drag, and thrust, as well as the assumptions made regarding the aircraft's behavior in response to wind changes. There are unresolved mathematical steps and conditions that depend on specific aircraft characteristics.

Cristiano
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When I see a paper where it is explained the wind effect on an airplane, I always see a kinematics problem.
Now I'm interested in calculating the wind effect starting from the force that the wind exert on the aircraft surfaces.
I know that F= 0.5 * rho * V2 * A * C and I also know that if we have 10 m/s head wind, the airplane decelerate of exactly that speed, but when I put that force in my program, I obtain a much smaller deceleration.
Please, could someone explain?
 
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Hello Cristiano. Welcome to the forum.

You put the 10 m/s into what program? You put it in how? And with what context? You know that a 10 m/s head wind causes the plane to decelerate that much under what conditions?

It is very hard to explain what some unknown computer program did under unknown conditions that don't seem to compare to some other unknown conditions.
 
I post a question and you answered with additional 4 questions? :smile:
I reformulate my question in a plainer form.

An airplane is cruising at 100 m/s; then it enters into a 10 m/s head wind; its speed becomes 90 m/s.
Please, using forces, could somebody demonstrate why?
 
Sure. The plane is at aerodynamic equilibrium at a relative air speed of 100 m/s. That means that forces balance at this speed. The 10 m/s ground speed of the head wind means that the ground speed of the plane must adjust so that it still has a 100 m/s air speed. Otherwise, forces will not balance. 100 minus 10 is 90.

You seem to think you are asking something else. Maybe you could expand on what that something else is?
 
You wrote: "The 10 m/s ground speed of the head wind means that the ground speed of the plane must adjust so that it still has a 100 m/s air speed.", which is easily demonstrated by adding the velocity vectors, but I can only use force vectors and hence, instead of write Vplane - Vwind, I must write Fplane - Fwind, in other words, the wind is an additional drag for the plane. How can that be written?
 
The deceleration related to entering a head wind is only temporary. From the plane's perspective, the relative wind speed increases from 100 m/s to 110 m/s and it the plane slows down asymptotically until the relative wind speed is back to 100 m/s (assuming no throttle changes).

In a real world situation, the plane would climb upwards (increased lift) and assuming positive pitch stability, it would pitch upwards, which would slow it down faster than what just the increase in aerodynamic drag would do, then the plane would return to level flight at a somewhat higher altitude.
 
rcgldr said:
The deceleration related to entering a head wind is only temporary. From the plane's perspective, the relative wind speed increases from 100 m/s to 110 m/s and it the plane slows down asymptotically until the relative wind speed is back to 100 m/s (assuming no throttle changes.

Good! I need to write something (formulas/algorithm) to calculate what you said.
 
If the plane were to keep its attitude, it should be easy to see from that equation that a 10% increase in speed results in a 21% increase in drag.

Of course, as said, the interaction in real life is far more complicated, so what else you want to include is determined by how sophisticated you want the model to be.
 
russ_watters said:
If the plane were to keep its attitude, it should be easy to see from that equation that a 10% increase in speed results in a 21% increase in drag.

Of course, if the plane keeps altitude, this is not in fact true, since in the higher wind speed, the lift coefficient must be reduced to maintain the same lift (and thus not gain altitude). When the lift coefficient is reduced, the induced drag will also be reduced. Depending on the details of the airplane, the total drag may go up very nearly 21% (if the induced drag was already low and the total drag was dominated by profile drag), or the total drag may rise much less, or even decrease (if the airplane is close to stalling and overall drag is dominated by induced drag). If the total drag decreases (the airplane was close to stall) and the control surfaces are adjusted at all times to maintain level flight, the aircraft may never return to its original speed - it may continue to fly faster than it was prior to the perturbation.
 
  • #10
At 100 m/s == 360 kph, most aircraft (at least sub-sonic aircraft) will be at cruise speed, where parasitic drag is the dominant factor. A propeller's or high bypass jet engine's thrust is going to be reduced if it's rpm and pitch stay constant when the aircraft first encounters a head wind. The mass versus drag is going to affect the rate of deceleration.
 
  • #11
cjl said:
Of course, if the plane keeps altitude, this is not in fact true, since in the higher wind speed, the lift coefficient must be reduced to maintain the same lift (and thus not gain altitude).
Agreed, but I said "attitude", not altitude. I purposely presented the simplest possible case.
 
  • #12
russ_watters said:
Agreed, but I said "attitude", not altitude. I purposely presented the simplest possible case.

Ahh. I misread that. Sorry.
 

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