How Electrons Knock Other Electrons & Create Vacancies

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of electron collisions and the creation of vacancies in atomic structures, particularly focusing on whether one electron can knock another electron out of its orbit and the implications of such interactions. The scope includes theoretical considerations and references to quantum effects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the mechanism of vacancy creation, suggesting that if an electron knocks another electron, they would simply exchange velocities without creating a vacancy.
  • Another participant uses a classical analogy involving balls to illustrate that while it is possible for one object to knock another off a post, it becomes less likely as the speed increases, paralleling the electron interaction.
  • Some participants mention the Compton effect in relation to electron interactions, with one asserting that it specifically involves photons and free electrons, while another corrects this by stating that electron-electron scattering is known as Moller scattering.
  • There is a discussion about the conservation of momentum during collisions, with a participant questioning how momentum conservation leads to the conclusion that one electron would take on the other's orbital velocity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanics of electron collisions and the resulting vacancies. There is no consensus on the explanations provided, and multiple competing models and interpretations are present.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference specific quantum phenomena and scattering processes, but the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these interactions and the conditions under which they occur.

Himal kharel
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i studied that xrays can be produced when a vacancy created ,by knocking of electrons by other high velocity electrons, is filled by other electrons of outer shell. but can electron knock a electron? in same mass collision as in above just velocity is exchanged. so the orbiting electron will gain velocity of striking electron and escape. but as the velocity is just exchanged the striking electron will receive orbital velocity and start orbiting the atom. so no vacancy is created. so how is this "vacancy thing" possible?
 
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Himal kharel said:
so the orbiting electron will gain velocity of striking electron and escape. but as the velocity is just exchanged the striking electron will receive orbital velocity and start orbiting the atom.

That's a bit like saying that if I have a ball sitting on a post, and knock it off by throwing another ball on it,
the second ball will always end up sitting on the post rather than them both flying off.

The former can happen of course, but becomes increasingly unlikely as the ball you're throwing gets faster.
That's essentially what's happening here (if we stay with the classical-analogy description).
 
Hi.

Electron knocking at another electron is dealt in Compton effect. I recommend to learn it.

Regards.
 
sweet springs said:
Hi.

Electron knocking at another electron is dealt in Compton effect. I recommend to learn it.

Regards.

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

The Compton is strictly associated with a photon interacting with a "free" (i.e., loosely bound relative to the energy of the incident photon) electron and inelastic scattering off that electron.

http://physics.about.com/od/quantumphysics/a/comptoneffect.htm"
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/comptint.html"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That's a bit like saying that if I have a ball sitting on a post, and knock it off by throwing another ball on it,
the second ball will always end up sitting on the post rather than them both flying off.

alxm said:
The former can happen of course, but becomes increasingly unlikely as the ball you're throwing gets faster.
That's essentially what's happening here (if we stay with the classical-analogy description).

Even when the velocity becomes too high for two equal mass collision there is velocity exchage. this is as per law of conservation of linear momentum.
 
Himal kharel said:
Even when the velocity becomes too high for two equal mass collision there is velocity exchage. this is as per law of conservation of linear momentum.

Ok, let p1 and p2 be the momentum of the two particles before the collision, and p'1 and p'2 be the momenta after the collision. Conservation of momentum means: p1 + p2 = p'1 + p'2

How do you get from that to p'2 = p1? Total momentum is conserved, not of the individual momenta of the particles.
 
Hi.

daveb said:
ABSOLUTELY NOT!

I was wrong. Electron-electron scattering is called Moller scattering.

from Wiki
Møller scattering is the name given to electron-electron scattering in Quantum Field Theory.

Regards.
 

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