How Has the Bible Survived Against All Odds?

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The survival of the Bible is attributed to the resilience of the Jewish and Christian communities amidst oppression and attempts to destroy their texts. Despite various historical challenges, including persecution and censorship, the Bible has maintained remarkable accuracy through meticulous recopying and the discovery of ancient manuscripts like the Dead Sea Scrolls. The text is noted for its wisdom, offering guidance on moral conduct, relationships, and health that remains relevant today. Claims of divine inspiration by multiple authors across centuries further support its unique status among religious texts. The Bible's scientific insights, such as the Earth's suspension in space and the importance of cleanliness, demonstrate knowledge that predates modern discoveries, solidifying its influence throughout history.
  • #91
What source would that be?
Please read this article and tell me your opinion... Did all the people who modified the bible in some way were God inspired? How can you be sure?
 
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  • #92
Originally posted by Guybrush Threepwood
What source would that be?
Please read this article and tell me your opinion... Did all the people who modified the bible in some way were God inspired? How can you be sure?
What are you suggesting that the Bible isn't complete? I believe that's possible. Whereas even if a lot of people had a hand in its creation, they would seem to be speaking about the same phenomenon here. And even if there were some who weren't credible, it no doubt would have been best for them keep their facts straight, otherwise suffer a lose in reputation.

Why should it be any different than any other profession?
 
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  • #93
Originally posted by Iacchus32
What are suggesting that the Bible isn't complete?

I'm suggesting that you should tell us exactly which Bible is the word of God? I think this is an important question. Please try not to avoid it. I'm looking for an answer like: "The KJV is the true bible..." or whatever you think here but don't divert this by another unrelated question. And an argument why the other versions are not God's words would be greatly appreciated.

From the article:

The total number of Catholic Old Testament books is 46 (or 45 if we combine Jeremiah and Lamentation) while that of Protestant is 39.

seems to me that either the Catholics or the Protestants broke that Deuteronomy 4.2 copyright notice from God. Who has the true word of God?
not to mention the Funding Fathers of the church (paragraph 4 from the article) who had each one a different list of books and didn't care to much about lose of reputation to make a common one.
 
  • #94
Originally posted by Guybrush Threepwood
I'm suggesting that you should tell us exactly which Bible is the word of God? I think this is an important question. Please try not to avoid it. I'm looking for an answer like: "The KJV is the true bible..." or whatever you think here but don't divert this by another unrelated question. And an argument why the other versions are not God's words would be greatly appreciated.
I think that the Bible is a very useful tool, and I prefer to use the King James version myself, as I don't believe it's been "adulterated" as much as some of the more recent versions. Besides, I never really did say the Bible was the word of God, although I have "alluded" to it as such. You can take this to mean that I don't go around "preaching" verse and chapter to other people.


seems to me that either the Catholics or the Protestants broke that Deuteronomy 4.2 copyright notice from God. Who has the true word of God?
not to mention the Funding Fathers of the church (paragraph 4 from the article) who had each one a different list of books and didn't care to much about lose of reputation to make a common one.
The true word of God is written in our hearts. So in this sense I think the Bible is very useful in helping us find that out.


But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (Jeremiah 31:33-34).
 
  • #95
Originally posted by Iacchus32
The true word of God is written in our hearts.

I guess this is the only point in which I agree with you...:smile:

Originally posted by Iacchus32
... I think the Bible is very useful in helping us find that out.

but I think you're making a big mistake here. Although the Bible has a few good advices there are also many bad parts in it. I would use a psychology book instead.
Well, till tommorow...
 
  • #96
Shouldn't that be one of the last verses in the Bible? After all how can you tell if something written after Deuteronomy was added with God's explicit permission or not? You just show up and say "Hi, I'm Jeremiah and I have a new book to add to the Bible"...
I don't know that I can give you an answer that will satisfy you on this point. You have to remember that at all times God was in control of what was included in the Bible. At some stage the Bible writings became recognised as inspired writings and were included as part of the scriptures. This would not have happened unless intended by God.

You can take this to mean that I don't go around "preaching" verse and chapter to other people.

The true word of God is written in our hearts.
Iacchus32, that is straight out of the Bible:

"I will put my law in their minds, and write it on their hearts." - Jeremiah 31:33

You're preaching from the Bible without knowing it!
 
  • #97
Originally posted by Laser Eyes
I don't know that I can give you an answer that will satisfy you on this point. You have to remember that at all times God was in control of what was included in the Bible. At some stage the Bible writings became recognised as inspired writings and were included as part of the scriptures. This would not have happened unless intended by God.

Iacchus32, that is straight out of the Bible:

"I will put my law in their minds, and write it on their hearts." - Jeremiah 31:33

You're preaching from the Bible without knowing it!
Yes, this is the verse that I quoted above. And yet it's also the one that says it's no longer necessary. And neither do I make a habit out of it either. :wink:
 
  • #98
hah, 7 pages and still no proof.

wow.
 
  • #99
Originally posted by Laser Eyes
You have to remember that at all times God was in control of what was included in the Bible. At some stage the Bible writings became recognised as inspired writings and were included as part of the scriptures. This would not have happened unless intended by God.

lacchus at least said what Bible he uses.
please answer the same question and tell me what Bible was controlled by God? why did He add more stuff for the Catholics? The Protestants were bad boys or something? Why would he control only the Bible and leave the other books uninspired?

I think you have to touch this subjects too if you intend to prove that the Bible is god's words. I mean why is the Bible so important to deserve His attention? It's the history of the Jews - ok. The story of Christ and his followers - ok. But couldn't be written by men alone? Why did it need a divine intervention?

So far the conclusion is the one written by megashawn...
 
  • #100
lacchus at least said what Bible he uses.
please answer the same question and tell me what Bible was controlled by God? why did He add more stuff for the Catholics? The Protestants were bad boys or something?
I'm not quite sure what you mean here. There is only one Bible. What do you mean which one? Can you be a bit more specific please.

Why would he control only the Bible and leave the other books uninspired?

I think you have to touch this subjects too if you intend to prove that the Bible is god's words. I mean why is the Bible so important to deserve His attention? It's the history of the Jews - ok. The story of Christ and his followers - ok. But couldn't be written by men alone? Why did it need a divine intervention?
I think what you are saying here is based on a misconception. The Bible was not some person's idea that God decided to give his attention to or intervene in. The Bible was God's idea from the beginning, written by men who wrote under God's inspiration. Everything in the Bible, from the history to the prophecy to the wisdom is there because God wants it there. He gave us his Word to guide us and to teach us the truth. Of course there are other books written by men that claim some sort of divine authority, but they are not God's concern. So what if men wrote other books? Is God obliged to interfere in the writing of every book that falsely claims divine authority? That would be contrary to the general "hands-off" policy that God has adopted. Satan and his minions can have their way for the time being but that that time is rapidly coming to an end.
 
  • #101
Originally posted by Laser Eyes
I'm not quite sure what you mean here. There is only one Bible. What do you mean which one? Can you be a bit more specific please.

at the beginning of page 7 in this thread I gave a link. read what's there and you'll understand my question.

He gave us his Word to guide us and to teach us the truth
In Bible the value of pi is 3 and the sky separates the waters below from the waters above. Is that the truth?

Satan and his minions can have their way for the time being but that that time is rapidly coming to an end.
what are this guys doing in this thread?
 
  • #102
WHat is funny is people making statements about the Bible, based solely on the Bible. This sort of circular reasoning leads absolutely nowhere. "The Bible is true, because in the Bible it says that the Bible is true." There is no other evidence that the Bible is true, except that claim. It is just another holy book written by men, inspired by...guess who?...men, of course! There is no evidence, and no need, for any God or Gods to be involved. In fact, a logical reading of any holy book leads to the same conclusion: it is a bunch of fables mixed in with the traditions andf history of the local tribe.
 
  • #103
Originally posted by Laser Eyes
I don't know that I can give you an answer that will satisfy you on this point. You have to remember that at all times God was in control of what was included in the Bible. At some stage the Bible writings became recognised as inspired writings and were included as part of the scriptures. This would not have happened unless intended by God.


This makes little if no sense. The God of the Bible creates the universe, but has to write a book through ghostwriters?

Then again, teh poor guy got tired after making everything, and needed a NAP! What kind of *expletive deleted* poor excuse for a deity is that?!?
 
  • #104
what are this guys doing in this thread?
I only mentioned them because you asked about these "other books" and why God didn't intervene in them as well as the Bible. The Bible says that Satan is the God of this world. All the false religions and books other than the Bible that claim to have divine authority were created by Satan to deceive people and prevent them from learning the truth. I'll get back to you about the other stuff.
 
  • #105
So is satan also responsible for all these damn dinosaur bones we keep finding? The supposive flaw in Carbon dating? Hiding evidence of a global flood. Also, is Satan responsible for writing the Epic of Gilgamesh, which is much older then the bible, but shares so much?

I mean, after we get done with satan tricking us, what else do you have?

And if satan is tricking us, he's doing a damn good job. Is god leaving us on our own, having to figure out what is true, when all the supposive tricks appear true? This does not sound like an all loving person to me.

Which goes back to the bible being full of lies.
 
  • #106
So is satan also responsible for all these damn dinosaur bones we keep finding?
No, of course not.

Also, is Satan responsible for writing the Epic of Gilgamesh, which is much older then the bible, but shares so much?
Yes.

I mean, after we get done with satan tricking us, what else do you have?
The truth.

And if satan is tricking us, he's doing a damn good job.
Yes he is, but I think he finds some people easier to trick than others.

Is god leaving us on our own, having to figure out what is true, when all the supposive tricks appear true?
Yes, God is leaving us mostly on our own, although not completely, because he has given us the Bible. If you want to know why he is leaving us on our own see what I said in the thread "Why does God allow evil?"
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=829
 
  • #107
OK, so what now? God's millions of spirit beings have witnessed this incident. The rebellious angel has accused God of being a lier. He has questioned God's right to rule. That has never happened before. Also, the first man chose to disobey God and has been cut off from God. What can be done? Well God could very easily destroy the rebellious angel. But would that solve the problem? After all God's power was never called into question. How can God prove that he is not a lier? Does he even need to prove it? The millions of angels are intelligent beings but they are not Gods. They can not see where the ripples will end. Only God knows for sure what will happen. What would the other angels think if God simply destroyed the dissenting voice? Might they start to wonder if God is trying to hide something? An issue has arisen that needs to be settled. The consequences of disobedience have to be seen.

While I've got some problems with your butchering this story in the earlier paragraphs, this is down right rediculous. Where is this story found in the bible?

And also, the consequences of disobedience is death, suffering, disease, etc? Forever? I mean, I've always heard preachers using the example of teaching a puppy to go outside to releive himself. But regardless of how many times the puppy does the doo in the house, you never tie it up out back, leaving it to its own devices, limited by the rope, and watch it from a tinted window in your house. With the millions of spirit beings (that also seems to lack any biblical backing) it sounds more like a spectator sport, like pro wrestling.

How did I miss that thread, expect a post sooner or later.

Because of the genetic defect that has been passed on to us from the first man and woman we have an inclination to do bad. We have to struggle against our wrong inclinations.

Well here you have it. With the DNA map of the human body complete, it should just be a lil bit of research and number crunching and you'd have a strong peace of evidence for your god. But then again, a genetic defect that causes certain individuals to go nuts, start killing ppls or whatever other sinful activity you can think of, is easily thought of as perhaps a not so evolved animal, not ready to survive in modern society.

Hah, there's a project for ya. Next figuring out if it affects the majority of the world. You could start taking DNA samples with the tithing.


Yes he is, but I think he finds some people easier to trick than others.

Ouch. But are you so sure your not the one being tricked, and what reasons can you provide that I should believe your thoughts, as opposed to my own or others whom I can relate?

In other words, here it goes again, what good reason can you provide that the bible, or Christianity, is the absolute truth? What evidence can you provide to discount all the other religions as false, and of the devil? Surely god would have provided us atleast with a method of examing religions and identify the fakes.

How can the epic be of satans authoring, when it is older then most christians believe the Earth to have existed?

And you said no to my question about dino bones. Why is there no record about them in the bible, which is supposed to be an acount for creation? How did a species that dominated this planet for millions of years not get a single mention?

That above paragraph, to me, works hard on what little credibility could be found in the bible.

And let's not even talk about rediculous claims of age, 500, 600, 900 years old. No chance of any evidence to back that claim up. Especially since reality shows that life expectancy is higher then ever.

And one more thing. You suggested that god was a source of life for adam, while in the garden. What would you think of technology to provide this same effect? Would we be capable of rivaling god? If you can provide any compelling evidence, I'll start working on the design so we can bring down the gates of heaven?



(anyone else have trouble with the devil icon? )
 
  • #108
a perfect book written by god NOWAY
just an other work of semi-fiction BY MAN

JC's name wasnot Jesus it was ya-sho-wa modern joshua but the angel told mary to call him emmanuel, but she didnot.
anyway the name jesus is just a tranlation error, when the bible was translated from greek to latin they blew his name! nobody was called jesus but that's the name they pray to in hope of salvation, so that's a major clue the religion is false or what?
where was the holy spirit , was he asleep durring the tranlation ?
or did GOD just forget his KIDS name?

btw JC called himself the son of man NOT son of god or christ
 
  • #109
Originally posted by Laser Eyes
I only mentioned them because you asked about these "other books" and why God didn't intervene in them as well as the Bible.

Well I was thinking about the real books, like those about science, Shakespeare, S.T. Coleridge, Tolkein, whatever you want else, not religious books...

The Bible says that Satan is the God of this world.

Please offer some exact Bible verse that says that! Or even mentions the name Satan.
 
  • #110
While I've got some problems with your butchering this story in the earlier paragraphs, this is down right rediculous. Where is this story found in the bible?
I could tell you but what's the point? You don't believe the Bible is God's word anyway. You have made that abundantly clear. In fact you don't even believe there is a God. You said on page 2 of this thread that "god is imaginary". So whether the story you have quoted is in the Bible or not what do you care? If you really don't believe the Bible is God's word then it shouldn't make any difference to you whether it's in the Bible or not. I find it quite amazing that someone who says the Bible is just another book written by men and also says that God is something created from man's imagination, would then say "Show me where that story is in the Bible".

Well here you have it. With the DNA map of the human body complete, it should just be a lil bit of research and number crunching and you'd have a strong peace of evidence for your god.
Perhaps not as simple as all that. After all we have no perfect specimen to which to compare our DNA. The genetically perfect human does not exist.

But then again, a genetic defect that causes certain individuals to go nuts, start killing ppls or whatever other sinful activity you can think of, is easily thought of as perhaps a not so evolved animal, not ready to survive in modern society.
This is not the first time that you have misstated what I have said. I didn't say that our genetic defect causes killing etc... I said that we are inclined to do bad things. We still have free will and great power to choose what we will do. We don't have to give into our impulses.

In other words, here it goes again, what good reason can you provide that the bible, or Christianity, is the absolute truth? What evidence can you provide to discount all the other religions as false, and of the devil?
Well I can't make God appear as if pulling a rabbit out of a hat. It's just my opinion but frankly I don't think anyone has made a dent in the arguments I presented at the beginning of this thread if you consider them all together.
How can the epic be of satans authoring, when it is older then most christians believe the Earth to have existed?
The Earth has existed for millions of years, obviously longer that the Gilgamesh story.

And you said no to my question about dino bones. Why is there no record about them in the bible, which is supposed to be an acount for creation? How did a species that dominated this planet for millions of years not get a single mention?
It's a fair question I suppose. The Bible does not purport to be a comprehensive record of every single thing that has ever happened. You could fill a library with the history of the universe. Would it help you if God had told you in the Bible why he created dinosaurs? Do you really need to know?

And let's not even talk about rediculous claims of age, 500, 600, 900 years old. No chance of any evidence to back that claim up. Especially since reality shows that life expectancy is higher then ever.
OK, we won't talk about it.

And one more thing. You suggested that god was a source of life for adam, while in the garden. What would you think of technology to provide this same effect? Would we be capable of rivaling god? If you can provide any compelling evidence, I'll start working on the design so we can bring down the gates of heaven?
People have been trying to discover the elixir of life for thousands of years. There are entire industries devoted to extending life, or at least the appearance of youth. Isn't that what cosmetics and pharmaceutical companies do? And don't they all fail in the end?

Please offer some exact Bible verse that says that! Or even mentions the name Satan.
Ask (nicely) and you shall receive:

"Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out." - John 12:31

"of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged." - John 16:11

"We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one." - 1 John 5:19

"whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them." - 2 Corinthians 4:4

"So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the Earth and his angels were cast out with him." - Revelation 12:9
 
  • #111
Originally posted by Laser Eyes
I could tell you but what's the point? You don't believe the Bible is God's word anyway.

well the thread title says that you offer proof that the Bible is God's word. If you can prove to us (me, megashawn, Zero, ...), I guess you can prove to anybody. So that would be the point :smile:.

Ask (nicely) and you shall receive:
I did say please...

You see, what you are really saying when you say that the Bible is God's words, is not only God exists, but that he did let some physical evidence for us humans. But when I read the Bible I see no evidence, just bloody stories from jewish history, some legends about various persons, prophecies full of anger about the coming of Christ, facts that the science has rejected, and some laws and moral advices. If there is a God who created this entire universe I guess I'm expecting more of him than some inconsistent stories. As for Satan if he wants to deceive humans and prevent us from learning the truth, I guess he's just some pathetic, stupid person (angel, whatever) with no personal life and really in need of some profesional psychiatric help...
 
  • #112
well the thread title says that you offer proof that the Bible is God's word. If you can prove to us (me, megashawn, Zero, ...), I guess you can prove to anybody. So that would be the point.
I offered what I considered reasonable arguments at the beginning of this thread. Taken together I believe they ought to be enough for any honest hearted person who doesn't believe the Bible is God's word to at least start wondering and questioning their beliefs. Those arguments are the best I can do. I have nothing more to offer. They can be expanded and written about in much greater detail but they are the essential arguments that prove the Bible is God's word. From what he has posted here it is apparent that megashawn has rejected those arguments. OK that's fine but what is the point of me explaining other concepts from the Bible to someone who believes the Bible is just another book written by men? If the arguments that I presented in the beginning aren't enough for you then nothing will be.
 
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  • #113
Originally posted by Laser Eyes
I offered what I considered reasonable arguments at the beginning of this thread. Taken together I believe they ought to be enough for any honest hearted person who doesn't believe the Bible is God's word to at least start wondering and questioning their beliefs. Those arguments are the best I can do. I have nothing more to offer. They can be expanded and written about in much greater detail but they are the essential arguments that prove the Bible is God's word. From what he has posted here it is apparent that megashawn has rejected those arguments. OK that's fine but what is the point of me explaining other concepts from the Bible to someone who believes the Bible is just another book written by men? If the arguments that I presented in the beginning aren't enough for you then nothing will be.

Then, maybe, we should start over, with your original posts, and take those points one at a time? Maybe expand on those, since they seem to have been dropped in favor of the never-popular 'but, darning, it says so in the Bible!' argument.
 
  • #114
If the "bible" would just be called what it is - true stories about life and god ignored there would be many more "saved" people than there are now.
 
  • #115
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, so what now? God's millions of spirit beings have witnessed this incident. The rebellious angel has accused God of being a lier. He has questioned God's right to rule. That has never happened before. Also, the first man chose to disobey God and has been cut off from God. What can be done? Well God could very easily destroy the rebellious angel. But would that solve the problem? After all God's power was never called into question. How can God prove that he is not a lier? Does he even need to prove it? The millions of angels are intelligent beings but they are not Gods. They can not see where the ripples will end. Only God knows for sure what will happen. What would the other angels think if God simply destroyed the dissenting voice? Might they start to wonder if God is trying to hide something? An issue has arisen that needs to be settled. The consequences of disobedience have to be seen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Could someone tell me who said this? I just started reading this thread and -- did I miss a page? I can't seem to find this anywhere except megashawns post. I have been studying the bible off and on for years, and, while I tend to believe that most of it is the inspired word of God, I find the inconsistancies and metaphors obstructive at best. This 'story' sound to me like arguments used by some Adventist friends of mine from years ago. I, too, would like to know:

Originally posted by megashawn
Where is this story found in the bible?
 
  • #116

You see, what you are really saying when you say that the Bible is God's words, is not only God exists, but that he did let some physical evidence for us humans. But when I read the Bible I see no evidence, just bloody stories from jewish history, some legends about various persons, prophecies full of anger about the coming of Christ, facts that the science has rejected, and some laws and moral advices. If there is a God who created this entire universe I guess I'm expecting more of him than some inconsistent stories. As for Satan if he wants to deceive humans and prevent us from learning the truth, I guess he's just some pathetic, stupid person (angel, whatever) with no personal life and really in need of some profesional psychiatric help...

Man, that makes the Bible sound almost embarassingly bad.. like if God ever showed up and we said "Hey, we got your book!" he'd see the nonsensical rambling scribbles and be disgusted, but humor our pathetic efforts
 
  • #117
Originally posted by Laser Eyes
I offered what I considered reasonable arguments at the beginning of this thread. Taken together I believe they ought to be enough for any honest hearted person who doesn't believe the Bible is God's word to at least start wondering and questioning their beliefs. Those arguments are the best I can do. I have nothing more to offer. They can be expanded and written about in much greater detail but they are the essential arguments that prove the Bible is God's word. From what he has posted here it is apparent that megashawn has rejected those arguments. OK that's fine but what is the point of me explaining other concepts from the Bible to someone who believes the Bible is just another book written by men? If the arguments that I presented in the beginning aren't enough for you then nothing will be.

Laser Eyes, have I, at any time, given you the impression that I haven't taken everything you said seriously and with full consideration to it's implications? Have I given you any reason, short of not agreeing with you, that I am less than honest?

I can understand that you see things differently, but I have a hard time when you start to imply that I and all that disagree with you are being intellectually dishonest.

The arguments you made had a number of flaws, from the point of view of a non-believer being convinced. In other words, from a non-believers point of view, they were not reasonable. If a person already believed in the bible, then I am sure they would be very compelling, but they were not ideas I find either compelling, nor even a little persuasive. No insult intended.

Most of those here that have lost our christian beliefs, have done quite a bit of religious searching and sole searching. Nothing you have said is anything that we haven't heard, a number of times, before.

I keep a fairly strict set of ethics in my behaviour and actions. Honesty is high on that list. Just because you do not understand why I don't accept things you consider as proof does not give you the right to question my, and my fellow posters, honesty. If your beliefs are such that considering me both honest and an aware no-christian threatens your faith, please do not voice this - in that it is a fairly serious insult to question another's honesty in public.

I do not think you intended to insult me or the others who disagree with you, but it is the meaning of the words that you chose.

I respect that you believe differently, please respect that my beliefs (or lack thereof) are different from yours.
 
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  • #118
Could someone tell me who said this? I just started reading this thread and -- did I miss a page?

What you quoted was a response to something laser eyes linked to, at this thread https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=829

Check a couple of posts above the one in question and you'll see the link and relevance.
 
  • #119
Originally posted by megashawn
What you quoted was a response to something laser eyes linked to, at this thread https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=829

Check a couple of posts above the one in question and you'll see the link and relevance.

After looking thru this one for it, I tho't it might be in that thread so I looked thru it, also. Must have been so tired I missed it there, too. But now I've discovered ANOTHER thread I have to read!(You guys have me HOOKED on this forum and I'm staying up WAY too late these days!) SORRY!

I guess I'm still waiting for an answer? Or is Laser Eyes still looking in the bible for that story?
 
  • #120
You guys have me HOOKED on this forum and I'm staying up WAY too late these days!) SORRY!

It has a tendency to do that to ya. I've been hooked for a lil over a year myself.
 

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