How Is Data Specifically Defined in Algebraic Topology?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of the term "data" in the context of algebraic topology, particularly as referenced in Hatcher's work. Participants explore whether "data" has a specific algebraic meaning or if it is used more generally to denote "information." The conversation touches on the implications of this terminology within mathematical discourse.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether "data" simply means "information" in a general sense or if it has a precise algebraic meaning, noting the difficulty in finding a clear definition.
  • Another participant humorously suggests that the term "data" is elusive and compares it to a family member one is expected to know but does not.
  • Some participants express concern over the formal meaning of "information" versus "data," suggesting that "data" may be a more general term with fewer assumptions.
  • There is a suggestion that "data" could be interpreted informally as "information," provided one does not invoke information theory.
  • A later reply proposes that a more precise alternative to "data" could be to specify the type of map or information needed in a given context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the precise meaning of "data" in this context. Multiple views are presented regarding its interpretation, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the ambiguity surrounding the term "data" and its application in mathematical contexts, particularly in relation to information theory and algebraic topology. There is no formal definition provided, and the implications of using "data" versus "information" are not fully explored.

dkotschessaa
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Sometimes while poking around for stuff in topology or algebra I find the word "data" used in this context, i.e. in Hatcher: (https://www.math.cornell.edu/~hatcher/AT/AT.pdf)

the data needed to do this is a map ##f : A \rightarrow X_0 ##, for then we can form a quotient space of ##X_0 \cup X_1## by identifying...

Does it just mean "information" in a general sense or is there some precise algebraic meaning?

It's impossible to just look up, since the word has so many other meanings.

-Dave K
 
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jedishrfu said:
Here's more data for your data but not sure if it's enough data to answer your data question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topological_data_analysis

Oh where is Commander Data when you need him?

This is what I meant about it being impossible to look up. If you search for "topology" and "data" you get stuff like that (which I have some familiarity with, but thank you). So unfortunately, this data about data is not the data about data that I was looking for, but data about data that I already had some data about.

I've seen the term pop up in algebra too. But nobody defines it. It just seems to means "here's some information" in which case, why say "data."

-Dave K
 
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In the words paraphrased from Seinfeld (the soup episode):
No DATA for you!
 
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I would worry more about the formal meaning of "information" than a formal meaning of "data". There is so much information theory that you wouldn't want to get tangled up with. "Data" is probably a better general term with fewer presumptions.
 
FactChecker said:
I would worry more about the formal meaning of "information" than a formal meaning of "data". There is so much information theory that you wouldn't want to get tangled up with. "Data" is probably a better general term with fewer presumptions.

Sure, but I still don't have a definition in this context. It just sort of shows up like a family member who I am supposed to know about but somehow don't!

It's not super important, of course. But I am just wondering why it's being used.

-Dave K
 
dkotschessaa said:
Sure, but I still don't have a definition in this context. It just sort of shows up like a family member who I am supposed to know about but somehow don't!
You can think of it as an informal "information" as long as you don't read information theory into it.
I am just wondering why it's being used.
Because it is better than "informal information without reading information theory into it". Is there a better alternative?
 
FactChecker said:
Is there a better alternative?

"The following map is needed..."
 
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