How is gravity considered as the weakest force?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter B.M.Gray
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Force Gravity
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the characterization of gravity as the weakest force among the four fundamental forces of nature. Participants explore the implications of this classification, particularly in relation to the electromagnetic, strong, and weak forces, and how gravity operates on different scales, from atomic to cosmic levels.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how gravity can be considered the weakest force when it governs the movement and attraction of mass in the universe, particularly in the context of dark matter and energy.
  • Others argue that the electromagnetic force is significantly stronger than gravity, citing examples such as the repulsion between electrons in atoms when jumping off a building.
  • One participant notes that the magnetic force of two magnets can exceed the gravitational force of the Earth, highlighting the relative strength of electromagnetic interactions.
  • It is mentioned that while gravity is always attractive and never cancels out, the other forces can exhibit both attraction and repulsion, which affects their net effects.
  • Some contributions suggest rethinking gravity not as a force but as a curvature of space, as described by Einstein, which may alter the perception of its strength.
  • Participants discuss the effectiveness of gravity over large distances, such as in galaxies, while noting its negligible effects at atomic scales compared to the strong nuclear force.
  • There are claims that gravity requires a significant amount of mass to exert comparable force to the other fundamental forces.
  • Some participants emphasize that while gravity may be weak, it is omnipresent and acts over vast distances, unlike the other forces which may only be strong at short ranges.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of gravity and its comparative strength. There is no consensus on whether gravity's classification as the weakest force is appropriate, as multiple competing perspectives are presented regarding its effects and interactions with other forces.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the nature of forces, the context of their interactions, and the scale at which they operate. Participants reference different scenarios and thought experiments that highlight the complexities of comparing gravitational force to other fundamental forces.

B.M.Gray
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Between the four main forces of nature how can gravity be the weakest when gravity seems to govern the entire movement and attraction of mass within the universe.
I know that more than 80% of the universes matter and more than 90% of its mass/energy is undetectable dark forces (dark matter and energy), but for anyone of the other three main forces to be dominant over gravity it would seem like one or each of them would have to be a governing or binding force of dark fluid as well (the combination of dark matter and energy).
If someone could be as detailed as possible when explaining how and/or why gravity is the weakest force of nature I would greatly appreciate it.
 
Space news on Phys.org
Well I know the Electromagnetic force is way way stronger than gravity because when you jump off a building, you won't plummet to the core of the earth, the ground will stop you. That is essentially the EM force of the outer electrons in the atoms of your body repelling the electrons in the atoms of the ground. Also the covalent and ionic bonds that hold all the individual atoms together(which is also EM).
 
Ok. A magnet weighs what... 50 grams?

Yet I take 2 magnets and the magnetic force of the magnets, each weighing 50 grams, beats the entire freaking 10^30 something tons of the entire Earth's gravity.
 
You don't see the other forces directly in everyday life as most objects do not have a (significant) net charge. Magnets, and the repulsion when you hit the floor give some hint how strong the electromagnetic force can be.

However, you can compare the forces between elementary particles: Calculate the gravitational attraction between two protons, and compare it with the electromagnetic interaction. You will see that those differ by a factor of 10^36 or something similar.
The strong force has a tiny range, but within that range it is even stronger.
The weak interaction is a bit tricky, but in setups where it is relevant it is much more important than gravity, too.
 
The difference between Gravity and 'the others' is that is only has one sign; it is always attractive. So, unlike the attraction and repulsion due to the equal numbers of protons and electrons in a lump of stuff, which mostly cancel each other out, every particle in a lump of stuff is attracting every other particle in any other lump of stuff. That means gravity, despite being relatively 'weak' has an effect that goes on 'for ever' and is never canceled out.
Anyway, it's not a beauty contest. Each one will beat the other under the appropriate circumstances.
 
I think it helps to stop thinking that gravity is a force at all, as Einstein explained it is the distortion of space. Just imaging things constantly falling faster and faster, satellites are always trying to fall to Earth as is the Earth constantly trying to fall into the Sun. Space is like water, if you get into water then the water has to move out of the way but is always trying to fill that space back up. Maybe I am wrong but this is how I see it.
 
Mfb stated it well!
Gravity seems to be effective over massive distances, such as the span of a galaxy, but on atomic levels it is nearly UN-detectable. I like to think of the gravitational force between two nucleons vs. the strong nuclear force between them...
 
chill_factor said:
Ok. A magnet weighs what... 50 grams?

Yet I take 2 magnets and the magnetic force of the magnets, each weighing 50 grams, beats the entire freaking 10^30 something tons of the entire Earth's gravity.
Yes but only across a short distance.Take one of your 50 gram magnets and drop it from any height anywhere on Earth.Now separate your 2 magnets by a couple of feet and measure the magnetic force.Don't know who coined the phrase weak force but it certainly seems a misnomer if you take into consideration it's universal pulling power.
 
Because it takes a lot of mass to exert the same amount of force as the others.
 
  • #10
Buckleymanor said:
Yes but only across a short distance.
Place both magnets on the ground, on top of each other. The lower magnet now has:
- magnetic force upwards (from a tiny 50g-object)
- gravity downwards (from everything below it, including mass at close distance)

Gravity is proportional to M/r^2, and the mass of Earth is related to its radius to the third power, so the gravitational pull on the object actually increases for a larger Earth radius (at constant density), even if some parts of Earth are far away.

Repeat the same experiment in space (without that extremely big mass nearby), and you won't notice gravity between the magnets at all.
As alternative, hypothetical experiment, remove all electrons from earth, leaving only the protons and neutrons - this removes just ~1/4000 of the mass, so gravitational attraction remains nearly the same. However, the result will be a BIG explosion, as the electromagnetic repulsion is so extreme that gravity is completely negligible.
 
  • #11
Repeat the same experiment in space (without that extremely big mass nearby), and you won't notice gravity between the magnets at all.
You might not notice gravity acting on the magnets but eventualy they will with or without a big mass nearby, you can't get away from mass, distance is no object to gravity.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
4K
  • Featured
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 37 ·
2
Replies
37
Views
6K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
4K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
7K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K