How is the Lorentz transformation derived and what does vx/c² signify?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the derivation of the Lorentz transformation equations and the significance of the term vx/c² in the context of special relativity. Participants explore both the mathematical formulation and conceptual implications of these transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Jeno requests clarification on the derivation of the Lorentz transformation equations, specifically the meaning of the term vx/c² in the time transformation equation.
  • Pess explains that the term vx/c² represents a temporal offset due to the relative motion of clocks in different frames, emphasizing that clocks in a moving frame do not appear synchronized from a stationary observer's perspective.
  • Participants share links to external resources for further reading on the Lorentz transformation.
  • There is a discussion about a potential error in an equation presented by Pete, with a participant questioning the relationship between terms involving β² and vx/c², leading to a correction of a mathematical expression.
  • Pete acknowledges the mistake in his website's content and expresses appreciation for the feedback, indicating a willingness to correct it.
  • Richie inquires about the similarities between Lorentz and Galilean transformations, but a participant notes that Pete has not been active for a long time, suggesting starting a new thread for this question.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints regarding the derivation and implications of the Lorentz transformation, and there is no clear consensus on the mathematical details or the relationship between the terms discussed.

Contextual Notes

Some participants indicate that the derivation of the Lorentz transformation requires a deeper understanding of Einstein's original work, which may not be fully addressed in the current discussion. Additionally, there are unresolved mathematical steps related to the correction of terms in the equations.

Jeno
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Can i know how does the Lorentz transformation equations are derived?
x'=Y(x-vt)
y'=y
z'=z
t'=Y(t-vx/c^2)

Especially the equation for t', what is term vx/c^2 there implies?
thank you for answering me.
-Jeno-
 
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Jeno said:
Can i know how does the Lorentz transformation equations are derived?
x'=Y(x-vt)
y'=y
z'=z
t'=Y(t-vx/c^2)

Especially the equation for t', what is term vx/c^2 there implies?
thank you for answering me.
-Jeno-
Well, you ask a lot here. It's a tall order, unless you desire a quick cheat sheet of sorts, with much assumed and/or omitted. Your question requires Sections 1 thru 3 of Einstein's 1905 OEMB paper, On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies. Section 3 is where the derivation takes place, whereby Einstein uses his kinematic model (thought experiment) of an emitter & reflector bouncing light back & forth.

The -vx/c^2 term is a temporal offset based upon distance x. Clocks in sync in the moving frame do not appear in sync per the stationary observing frame, however those moving clocks all tick at the same rate. If one clock reads 12am in some instant of your vantage, the other clock does not. It reads 12am at some other moment in your vantage, prior or later, even though the clocks are 12am AT ONCE per themselves. The delta time between like readouts (per you) depends opon the variable separation x, and the recorded velocity.

pess
 
Hello,

Pete, there is something I would like to understand at the number (7) of your website :

v\gamma t' = v\gamma^2 t - \gamma^2 \beta^2 x = v\gamma^2 t - \gamma^2 vx/c^2

Why does \beta^2 x = vx/c^2 if \beta^2 = v^2 / c^2?

Isn't v\gamma t' = v\gamma^2 t - \gamma^2 v^2 x/c^2 = v\gamma^2 (t-vx/c^2 ) ?

Thanks
 
Last edited:
Zeit said:
Hello,

Pete, there is something I would like to understand at the number (7) of your website :

vgamma t' = vgamma^2 t - gamma^2 beta^2 x = vgamma^2 t - gamma^2 vx/c^2

Why does beta^2 x = vx/c^2 if beta^2 = v^2 / c^2?

Isn't vgamma t' = vgamma^2 t - gamma^2 v^2 x/c^2 = vgamma^2 (t-vx/c^2 )?

Thanks
Infact, there is a mistake. It should be as you say. The last term shouldn't be gamma^2 vx/c^2 but, instead:
gamma^2 v^2x/c^2.
 
Zeit said:
Hello,

Pete, there is something I would like to understand at the number (7) of your website :

v\gamma t' = v\gamma^2 t - \gamma^2 \beta^2 x = v\gamma^2 t - \gamma^2 vx/c^2

Why does \beta^2 x = vx/c^2 if \beta^2 = v^2 / c^2?

Isn't v\gamma t' = v\gamma^2 t - \gamma^2 v^2 x/c^2 = v\gamma^2 (t-vx/c^2 ) ?

Thanks
Its probably beccause I screwed up. :biggrin:

When I create these web pages I first do it with pen to paper. Then I transfer to an MS Word document so I can add equations etc. Then I take that and translated it into a web page. There's plenty of places to go wrong in this process. But thank you so much for pointing it out. I'll put this in my file of web pages to correct. Thanks again.

Best wishes

Pete
 
No problem, I thank you for it, because I had been searching for this kind of webpage when I found this thread :biggrin:
 
  • #10
Zeit said:
No problem, I thank you for it, because I had been searching for this kind of webpage when I found this thread :biggrin:
Thanks. I got to tell you Zeit. Its a very good feeling when you've done an enormous amount of work and someone finds it of use. Thank you for letting me know. :approve:

Best wishes

Pete

ps - Feel free to e-mail me or PM me about anything whatsoever. Okay? :smile:
 
  • #11
Hello,

Thanks Pete for your proposal, I'll write you if I need to :-p

Good bye
 
  • #12
PETE, Please i want to know the similarities between lorenz and galilean transformation
 
  • #13
Richie,
How long are you willing to wait for a answer? Pete has not been active for nearly 3yrs.
I suggest you start your own thread.

Necroposting. Thread locked.
 

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