How is the Van der Waals interaction potential calculated?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the Van der Waals interaction potential, specifically focusing on the expression for the interaction energy between two atoms modeled as harmonic oscillators. Participants explore the nature of the potential and its derivation, including the role of dipole interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the expression H = - (2*e^2*x1*x2) / R^3, suggesting that the attractive part of the Van der Waals interaction typically behaves like 1/R^6.
  • Another participant clarifies that they are discussing the Coulomb interaction energy between two harmonic oscillators, which leads to a potential that resembles 1/R^3 for dipoles.
  • A participant explains that to derive the 1/R^3 potential, one can sum the pairwise interactions for point charges on different dipoles, ignoring constant interactions within each atom.
  • Further elaboration includes using a Taylor approximation for the interaction terms when R_1,2 >> r, leading to surviving terms that resemble 1/R^3, with the sign and coefficient depending on dipole orientation.
  • Another participant provides a detailed potential expression involving the separation distances and suggests using a binomial expansion to simplify the terms, ultimately leading to a potential of the form V = -2*mu^2/R^3, where mu = e*r.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the initial expression for the potential, with some agreeing on the nature of the dipole interactions while others contest the initial formulation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the validity of the original expression versus the derived forms.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific assumptions about the configurations of atoms and the nature of interactions, indicating that the discussion relies on approximations and specific conditions related to the distances involved.

chikou24i
Messages
44
Reaction score
0
Hello! In Van der Waals interaction, how to prove that : H= - (2*e^2*x1*x2) / R^3 ?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
chikou24i said:
Hello! In Van der Waals interaction, how to prove that : H= - (2*e^2*x1*x2) / R^3 ?

This looks strange. The attractive part of the Van der Waals (what it looks like you are talking about) goes like 1/R^6, with the polarizabilities in the numerator).
A very complete discussion of the various kinds of forces between atoms/molecules can be found in Hirschfelder, Curtiss and Bird "Molecular Theory of Gases and Liquids"
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: chikou24i
I'm talking about the Coulomb interaction energy between two harmonic oscillator ( two atoms modelised by two harmonic oscillator)
 
chikou24i said:
I'm talking about the Coulomb interaction energy between two harmonic oscillator ( two atoms modelised by two harmonic oscillator)

This makes more sense. The 1/R^3 potential is one you get for two dipoles. To find this interaction you can sum the pair wise interactions for point charges on the different dipoles (the attraction between electron 1,2 and proton 1,2 can be ignored, since they are constant - just worry about the electron/proton on atom 1 interacting with the charges on atom 2.)

What you will do is approximate the 1/(R_1,2) terms in a Taylor approximation when R_1,2 >> r, where r is the length of the dipole. You will find that the terms that survive are the ones that look like 1/R^3. The sign (attractive, repulsive) and leading coefficient depend upon the orientation of the two dipoles.

I am nearly positive that Hirschfelder,Curtiss, and Bird show this. Probably a good e&m book will show this, too.
 
Quantum Defect said:
What you will do is approximate the 1/(R_1,2) terms in a Taylor approximation when R_1,2 >> r, where r is the length of the dipole. You will find that the terms that survive are the ones that look like 1/R^3. The sign (attractive, repulsive) and leading coefficient depend upon the orientation of the two dipoles.
Now you understand me, and this is what I'm looking for if you can help me.
 
The potential is easiest to see if you set up the two atoms, with the following orientations:

+ -.................... + -

The proton-electron separation in each atom is r, and the proton-proton separation is R (as is the electron-electron separation).

The potential is:

V = -e^2/r - e^2/r + e^2/R + e^2/R - e^2 /(R-r) - e^2/(R+r)

The first two terms are constants (assuming that r is fixed), so let's forget about those.

V = 2e^2/R - e^2/(R-r) - e^2/(R+r)

You are going to rearrange the 1/(R+/-r) into something that you can expand:

1/(R+/-r) = 1/R*(1/[1+/-x]) where x = r/R, a small number.

Use the binomial expansion for 1/(1+x) and 1/(1-x), and plug and chug...

You should find that the largest term looks like:

V = -2*mu^2/R^3, where mu = e*r
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: chikou24i

Similar threads

  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
8K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K