How many hours to study for quals?

[FallenApple]

I want a guaranteed pass. How many hours to be on the safe side? 500? 600?

 

[jedishrfu]

As many hours as you can spare and it must be intelligently spent doing problems, finding weaknesses and being able to teach what you've learned which is perhaps the best way to find out what you don't know.

Talk to other students who've taken the exam in the past and find out what they had problems with. Also look at past exams if available and work all the problems and somehow validate them too.

Basically eat, sleep and dream the exam. Make it so...

 

[Vanadium 50]

I want a guaranteed pass

No such thing. And even if there were, I doubt the difference between 500 and 600 would be significant.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

I spent 2000+.

 

[JoePhysics]

It really doesn't go by hours. Go through your undergraduate books, do as many problems as you can, find previous exams from your department and do them, make sure you live, breathe and eat the basics.

 

[Dr.D]

I did not study for the quals specifically at all. I had studied hard through all my previous course work, so I simply looked at a few (a very few) typical problems, and let it go at that. It worked for me.

I found throughout college that cramming for any exam was a mistake for me. If I did, I'd find a problem I could not work, and get all hung up on that one problem. The I went to the exam rattled to begin, and that was always a disaster. I found it much better to simply relax before any exam (I usually read Sherlock Holmes), and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[jedishrfu]

And the chips fell here

https://books.google.com/books?id=4...lock holmes chips fall where they may&f=false

 

[CrysPhys]

I want a guaranteed pass. How many hours to be on the safe side? 500? 600?

No such thing as a guaranteed pass based solely on number of prep hours. You might also want to check the pass statistics at your university. My physics grad dept was notorious when I was there many moons ago. You had two shots to pass the qual; if not, you were given an MS as a consolation prize, as well as given the boot. For each entering grad class, only ~50% ultimately passed. The qual was intentionally designed to trip students up.

 

[JoePhysics]

No such thing as a guaranteed pass based solely on number of prep hours. You might also want to check the pass statistics at your university. My physics grad dept was notorious when I was there many moons ago. You had two shots to pass the qual; if not, you were given an MS as a consolation prize, as well as given the boot. For each entering grad class, only ~50% ultimately passed. The qual was intentionally designed to trip students up.

That's pretty nuts. Where was this, if you don't mind? May be useful to see some examples of crazier qual exams.

 

[Mmm_Pasta]

You should be studying smart. If you spend 500 hours studying areas you are strong in or comfortable with, that really isn't useful study time. We can't give you an estimate for time: too many variables to consider.

Also, cramming 500 hours into a single month is far less effective than studying 500 hours spread out over a year.

 

[CrysPhys]

That's pretty nuts. Where was this, if you don't mind? May be useful to see some examples of crazier qual exams.

I won't give my grad alma mater a bad rap on a public forum. Suffice it to say it's in the US, and one of the top rated physics research depts in the world. It's been 40+ yrs (yikes!) since I took the qual, and it looks like the dept's mended its ways. According to its website, pass rates for recent classes now range from 80 - 90%. But I checked a grad school monitoring website; looks like its entering class size is now about half of what it was when I was there. The first year was a brutal culling process back then; maybe it's grown more humane over the decades (either that, or undergrad enrollments have dropped and fewer disposable TAs are needed).

 

[Vanadium 50]

Is this part of your plan to show up at a university, take the qual, and impress the faculty so much by your score that they offer you admission on the spot? If so, that's still a bad plan.

 

[mpresic]

In the early 80's I passed the quals. I worked approximately 20 hrs a week on research; and studied perhaps on average, approximately 30 hours a week (6 hours a day) on qualifying exam questions from old finals or problem solving from undergraduate level and graduate level textbooks. (I already had a good understanding of freshman/sophomore physics as well as linear algebra, and differential equations).

If you have a good undergraduate program in physics with a good background in math, probably another 30 hours a week throughout the summer should get you through. That is 30 hrs a week for perhaps 16 weeks (close enough to 500 hours.)

There are no guarantees in anything at life. Testing an entire undergraduate/early graduate preparation, even in a 12-16 hour test is going to be hit or miss.
Studying at least 500 hours will certainly improve your chances.

For every problem you have trouble doing, think of it this way. Would you rather encounter it in your preparation, while you can sip coffee, diet coke, or the drink of your pleasure, in comfortable surroundings, or would you rather confront it during the exam, without preparation. Ultimately, you may also be competing with your classmates, so you'll want to work harder than much or all of your competition.

 

[eri]

I took the quals about 10 years ago, and a 50% passing rate was pretty common for both schools I attended (failed twice at one school - to be fair I really didn't spend more than 50 hours studying for either, was planning to transfer out at some point), passing the first time at the new school (after 500+ hours of studying). Many who didn't pass either switched to another department (engineering, computational science, materials) or transferred somewhere else and passed (like I did). So it worked out OK in the end, but a 50% fail rate is not unexpected for me.

 

[dkotschessaa]

I want a guaranteed pass. How many hours to be on the safe side? 500? 600?

That's not how it works man!

Do you have copies of old quals to study from?

My formula generally is to take one of the old quals and take it like a test in the same conditions. Almost every week. During the next week I "correct" and study what I need to fix. I keep repeating that process.

I'll let you know how it works.

-Dave K

 

[FallenApple]

I took the quals about 10 years ago, and a 50% passing rate was pretty common for both schools I attended (failed twice at one school - to be fair I really didn't spend more than 50 hours studying for either, was planning to transfer out at some point), passing the first time at the new school (after 500+ hours of studying). Many who didn't pass either switched to another department (engineering, computational science, materials) or transferred somewhere else and passed (like I did). So it worked out OK in the end, but a 50% fail rate is not unexpected for me.

Interesting. Did they let you transfer over all your graduate classes for credit?

 

[FallenApple]

That's not how it works man!

Do you have copies of old quals to study from?

My formula generally is to take one of the old quals and take it like a test in the same conditions. Almost every week. During the next week I "correct" and study what I need to fix. I keep repeating that process.

I'll let you know how it works.

-Dave K

Yes. I plan to work through them all.

By your way, it would be way less than 500 hours.

 

[dkotschessaa]

Yes. I plan to work through them all.

By your way, it would be way less than 500 hours.

I'm not sure how your calculation works, but my way can work into any number of hours. In my case (topology) I've spent entire weekends devoted to a single problem. Not because I couldn't find the answer, but because I realized that my inability to answer it in a test situation was based on a lack of mastery in a particular area. So I would have to go back and do a lot of review.

I think it is more about the proportion of hours than the hours. i.e. you have a finite number of hours you can study. You might not get to decide how many hours you actual can allot in total, but you can decide what to do with those hours. Most of them should be spent on stuff you don't understand yet - especially in the beginning. It seems like a lot of people spent time in their comfort zone reviewing or going over problems they already know how to do.

As I'm getting sort of near the end I'm doing more review/regugitation so I can answer questions quickly and correctly. But I spent a lot of time in the "dark corners" of the textbook with stuff that made my brain hurt because it was foreign to me. Actually, this part of the process is really kind of enjoyable because I have at least some feeling (delusion?) of understanding the topic.

If I don't do well I will basically start the process over. I have...33 days.

-Dave K

 

[Vanadium 50]

By your way, it would be way less than 500 hours.

Sorry, but this is fantasy. Indulging this is not going to get you where you want to go.

You are way, way more than 500 hours away from passing the qual at a reputable school.
You can't gain admission to a graduate school by walking in and acing the qual.

If you are serious, you need to stop focusing on the qual and start focusing on the GRE. This isn't the first time you have heard this.

 

[Dr Transport]

If I remember correctly, I worked about 2500 problems getting ready for my qualifier, I took all the texts we used and worked out 5-10 problems per chapter, then I did the past 5 years or so of old exams. If you do that, you'll have a decent chance at seeing multiple problems very similar to what you already worked out. I distinctly remember on mine that they wanted us to quantize the earth-sun system and get the analogous expression to the hydrogen atom.

 

[alan2]

I am curious to know what the OP is actually talking about. Different schools have different names for things. I had to take "qualifying exams" in my first year which covered what every first year grad student should know from undergrad and I studied exactly zero hours for them. The nasty exams were called "comprehensive exams" and were a combination of written and oral exams covering what everyone should know from 2-3 years of grad school to actually earn a PhD.

 

[gleem]

It is said that you will never know more physics in your life than you do just before you take the qualifying exam. I studied until I could no longer study.

 

[jasonRF]

I am curious to know what the OP is actually talking about. Different schools have different names for things. I had to take "qualifying exams" in my first year which covered what every first year grad student should know from undergrad and I studied exactly zero hours for them.

I am thinking the same thing. The OP should ask older grad students in their department, and perhaps the students that have the same advisor. They will give more relevant advice than any of us here.

Where I was, the "qualifier" exam was very different in each department. In some departments it was a multi-day written exam that all students took at the same time. In other departments (like the one I was in) it was 100% in the hands of your committee. My advisor alway insisted on oral exams. It seemed to focus mostly on stuff I should know from undergrad, and whether I could derive stuff from first principles. I was given no time to study - perhaps 1 week notice, but I was taking a full load and working a research assistantship.

The "A-exam" was a couple years later (and also 100% at the discretion fo the committee) after I was done with coursework and I was given 1 month to study. I probably studied around 300 hours or so. With my committe it was the do-or-die moment, and was also oral.

But none of my experience really matters much. What does matter is how the OP's department and/or advisor runs the qualifier.

Jason

 

[Vanadium 50]

What does matter is how the OP's department and/or advisor runs the qualifier.

The OP is not in graduate school.

 

[alan2]

The OP is not in graduate school.

Which is precisely why his question makes no sense and can't be answered beyond "it depends".

 

[dkotschessaa]

Sorry, but this is fantasy. Indulging this is not going to get you where you want to go.

You are way, way more than 500 hours away from passing the qual at a reputable school.
You can't gain admission to a graduate school by walking in and acing the qual.

If you are serious, you need to stop focusing on the qual and start focusing on the GRE. This isn't the first time you have heard this.

Seems there is more to this story than we know from this thread alone.

The OP is not in graduate school?

Edit: Ok, just read the above post which hadn't shown up for me somehow when I posted.

Yeah, sounds like one of those fantasy/jumping the gun indulgences.

 

[dkotschessaa]

That being understood, the best way to "prepare for the qual" this far in advance is to excel at all the prerequisite work.

The ideal would be:

You study for the qual specifically because you have already worked very hard in the class/classes the qual is testing you on
You were able to do well on those classes because you put in lots of time for the class itself, were engaged, did lots of problems etc.
You were able to do that because you worked hard at mastering the prerequisite material.

In that case studying the qual would mean deepening your understanding of already-learned material. This involves studying in a very non-linear way. I.e. you already read the book from A-Z. Now you study parts E R Q S for a bit because those are your weak areas. Then you realize they are weak because you missed something in D Q P and R and maybe a bit from some other graduate or undergraduate class you have to review.

This is not a good way to learn a subject the first time!

-Dave K

 

[FallenApple]

Sorry, but this is fantasy. Indulging this is not going to get you where you want to go.

You are way, way more than 500 hours away from passing the qual at a reputable school.
You can't gain admission to a graduate school by walking in and acing the qual.

If you are serious, you need to stop focusing on the qual and start focusing on the GRE. This isn't the first time you have heard this.

The GRE is not that difficult though. If I know the qual, I know the GRE. It's a subset but with easier questions. Worse case, from studying the quals, I just end up learning a bunch of physics.

 

[Dr Transport]

The GRE is not that difficult though. If I know the qual, I know the GRE. It's a subset but with easier questions. Worse case, from studying the quals, I just end up learning a bunch of physics.

Regardless, without a degree and a good GRE score, you're not getting into a graduate program.

 

[Mmm_Pasta]

The GRE is not that difficult though. If I know the qual, I know the GRE. It's a subset but with easier questions. Worse case, from studying the quals, I just end up learning a bunch of physics.

Are you sure about that? A grad qualifier may consist of four questions on a single topic with a three hour limit. The GRE is one-hundred multiple choice questions over a broad range of topics with a three hour limit. You will need quite a bit of intuition and be able to recognize wrong answers (and a tiny bit of random trivia-type knowledge) to do really well on the GRE. You won't do too much in terms of math-type problem solving since you run the risk of wasting too much time.

The questions asked on a grad qualifier will be much different than those asked on the GRE. When I took my statistical mechanics exam we had no questions on thermodynamics; we had to find the pressure of a Bose-Einstein gas at low temperature, derive Fermi and Bose-Einstein distributions, and some other statistical questions, but nothing on thermodynamics, but I'm sure you'll want to study thermodynamics for the GRE since I'm sure you won't be asked any questions about quantum gasses.

You could be adept at solving the problems I've mentioned, but it won't guarantee success on the GRE since they don't come up on the GRE. Studying for a grad qualifier can come later when you have studied for the GRE and can solve problems that you see on the GRE. So saying that the GRE is a subset of grad qualifier questions is wrong since the two are very different. You will be asked about circuits, thermodynamics, force diagrams, F = ma, and other material that you won't see on a grad qualifier.