How many of you are currently employed (graduates only)?

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Discussion Overview

The thread discusses the employment status of graduates from STEM programs, focusing on whether they are currently employed or unemployed. Participants express their views on the implications and limitations of a poll designed to capture this demographic information, as well as the nuances surrounding employment definitions for graduates, particularly those pursuing or holding PhDs.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the effectiveness of a one-question poll in capturing meaningful data about employment status among STEM graduates.
  • Others argue that the poll serves as a snapshot of the demographics of the Physics Forums community, particularly in relation to concerns about employment raised in the Career Guidance section.
  • A participant raises the issue of whether employed PhD students should be counted as employed, noting that their employment status can vary based on their specific roles and sectors.
  • Concerns are expressed about the poll's ability to accurately represent the employment status of all STEM graduates, given that it only captures responses from those who visit the thread.
  • Some participants highlight the importance of considering the nature of employment, questioning whether graduates in non-STEM jobs should be included in the poll results.
  • There is a discussion about the geographical impact on employment opportunities for STEM graduates, suggesting that location can significantly influence employment rates.
  • A participant suggests that a more scientific approach would involve a random sample of PF members to gather employment data, acknowledging the limitations of the current poll.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity and design of the poll, with no consensus reached on how to best capture the employment status of STEM graduates. There are multiple competing perspectives regarding the inclusion of PhD students and those employed in non-STEM fields.

Contextual Notes

Limitations of the poll include its reliance on self-selected responses from forum members and the potential bias introduced by only capturing those who visit the thread. The discussion also highlights the complexity of defining employment status among graduates, particularly in relation to part-time and full-time roles.

What is your current job status (STEM graduates only)

  • Employed full-time

    Votes: 32 72.7%

  • Employed part-time

    Votes: 3 6.8%

  • Unemployed

    Votes: 8 18.2%

  • Retired

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 1 2.3%
  • Total voters
    44
  • Poll closed .
  • #31
WWGD said:
@StatGuy2000 : I am trying to speak for you here, please let me know if I have it right:
But he is aware of that and he is not claiming otherwise. And he is also , realistically, unable to run a rigorous test, because this would require him to ask way more questions of people than most would be willing to answer and he may run afoul of PF rules in the process. The conditions of a standard user do not realistically allow for a random representative sample to be run. So Staguy2000 is aiming for the best he can do under these conditions, not the best that could be done under (more ) ideal conditions.

You have it exactly right.
 
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  • #32
MarneMath said:
If you want to take things literal then he is capturing a snapshot of the demographics of the PF forum, it just happens to be a bias one. Nothing stops me from going into my databases and pulling information dealing with the state of Alaska and saying this is a snapshot of the data contained in my database. It is, but the data presented wouldn't accurately represent the lower 48.

WWGD more or less summarized my response, but I will respond as follows:

I am well aware that this is biased snapshot, since it relies on members of PF forums who are visiting this particular thread to specifically reply to my poll. As a statistician, I'm sure you are aware that to obtain an accurate representation of the PF membership would require more detailed sets of survey questions sent out (via e-mail, conversations, or some other manner) to a randomized sample (we are for the moment not weighting or adjusting for age, gender, or other demographic characteristics). As I've already stated, such a survey is not practical, so the poll as presented is really the only tool I have at my disposal to even obtain a biased perspective of the question I'm interested in, with all of its limitations.
 
  • #33
Maybe I wasn't clear, I wasn't directing my comment towards you StatGuy but rather Boolean comment that he was taking everything you said literally. Thus I replied if that was the case, then he should be aware that he's doing a poor job of such. I personally have no problems with what you are doing. I've read enough of your post to be aware that you're not ignorant of our field :).
 
  • #34
MarneMath said:
If you want to take things literal then he is capturing a snapshot of the demographics of the PF forum, it just happens to be a bias one. Nothing stops me from going into my databases and pulling information dealing with the state of Alaska and saying this is a snapshot of the data contained in my database. It is, but the data presented wouldn't accurately represent the lower 48.

Actually, to take things literally you have to say he is capturing a snapshot of one narrow section of the PF forum, not the forum itself. Also I am well aware of dishonest data manipulation which is why I am so nit picky. I consider poorly defined or poorly collected data to be pointless.
 
Last edited:
  • #35
Boolean Boogey said:
I consider poorly defined or poorly collected data to be pointless.
Statguy disagrees and it's his poll, not yours.

For the love of god, people, this is a harmless poll. Either answer it or don't (or ask honestly for clarifications of intent to enable you to answer). Nitpicking it is pointless/counterproductive/insulting/disruptive.
 
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  • #36
russ_watters said:
Nitpicking it is pointless/counterproductive/insulting/disruptive.

Nitpicking is also a great way to learn. It's a shame people are so sensitive and unable to debate for fun these days, always so quick to take offense.
 
  • #37
Boolean Boogey said:
Nitpicking is also a great way to learn.

No, no it's not. Countless threads have been rendered ineffective because they have been derailed by someone who would rather nitpick than actually answer the posted question, and it's only because of the efforts of the Mentors that there are not an order of magnitude more.

This particular quibble is especially pointless. It boils down to "you could have asked a different question." Yes, he could have. But he didn't. He asked this one.
 
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  • #38
Realistically, people attend a school, get a degree, and then start building a career. The career will morph and change over time. I could easily have gone into management, but I chose not to. Had I done so, I would not be working in a STEM field. So if StatGuy2000 had asked whether I was working on anything remotely related to my STEM major I'd have had to answer no.

We have to recognize that once you start building a career, your technical education may not always be the piece in use. I know one guy who got a STEM degree, went back for his MBA, and now is working at the executive level of the company. Is he a success? Hell yeah! And yet you can't tell from this survey whether he ended up at the executive level or whether he's running a coffee shop. No simple survey could tell you that and even if it could, it doesn't discuss the progression and how things came to be. Was it something in the education or was it the individual? Nature? Nurture? --Whatever.

This survey is probably just a curiosity itch that StatGuy2000 wanted to scratch. From here, perhaps we can figure out other questions to ask...

Good start, StatGuy!
 

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